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Old 08-19-2015, 02:05 PM   #41
ericthered
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Default Re: Converting "Problematic" Spells to Powers

To those claiming that Time Control 10 is an appropriate way to do suspend time: you're relying on a divide by zero effect. would you allow someone with time control 9 to act 9 times each round? because that's quite similar to what you are describing. Control tends to be quite fast and loose in how it works. And in gurps its best to pay for the effects.

Suspend time has two main effects:
1) You are removed from the situation you are in for a time. You are in a little world of your own, where you can spend as much time as you want, undisturbed. This is clearly modeled by jumper (pocket dimension). You can effect the outer world, but you can't move around, and you are impeded in your efforts to do so. This is modeled by the tunnel effect on jumper.
2) When you are done doing whatever in your pocket dimension, you are returned to the time that you left at. This is fairly clearly a use of jumper (time), with only one possible time you can jump to.

If this feels complicated, this is not a straightforward spell, nor a common effect in fiction. It takes up about half of the page its on. You probably shouldn't be able to model it by saying something as simple as control time 10.

I'll also point out that this build replicates the powerful but non-broken spell rather than the ability to walk around the world looking for perfect shots and then essentially warping a mile a way.
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Old 08-19-2015, 02:36 PM   #42
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Default Re: Converting "Problematic" Spells to Powers

Actually, suspend time is arguably just world-jumper into an alternate universe with a different speed of time passage. Other than declaring the existence of such a reality, it doesn't require any particular rules oddities. It looks like Pyramid 3/63 might even allow doing this (I don't have it).
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Old 08-19-2015, 02:49 PM   #43
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Default Re: Converting "Problematic" Spells to Powers

Is "Time" even a valid category for Control? Powers doesn't seem to expect anything nearly that broad. And it does say

Quote:
Control over complex processes (e.g., chemical reactions) requires an entire power not just a single Control ability
Clearly one ability isn't enough even to control a chemical reaction. Stopping all chemical reactions at once would be that much harder; and of course "Control Time" to stop all processes - chemical, nuclear, mechanical, radiative, etc -- is an order of magnitude beyond even that. The bit about "an entire power" suggests you need a whole suite of abilities to control many individual elements, in this case presumably Linked so that you can activate them together.
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:46 AM   #44
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Default Re: Converting "Problematic" Spells to Powers

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Clearly one ability isn't enough even to control a chemical reaction. Stopping all chemical reactions at once would be that much harder
Quibble, but that box says "chemical reactions", plural. Not "a chemical reaction", singular. I think "Control: Sodium metal and water reaction" is definitely narrow enough :)
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:51 AM   #45
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Default Re: Converting "Problematic" Spells to Powers

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
To those claiming that Time Control 10 is an appropriate way to do suspend time: you're relying on a divide by zero effect. would you allow someone with time control 9 to act 9 times each round?
For 900 points and requiring a roll to work? Absolutely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Is "Time" even a valid category for Control? Powers doesn't seem to expect anything nearly that broad.
Only at the Godlike level of Control, which can cost up to 100/level. And yeah, I'd go with the 100/level cost for controlling time itself.
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Old 08-20-2015, 10:37 AM   #46
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Default Re: Converting "Problematic" Spells to Powers

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Originally Posted by Nereidalbel View Post
For 900 points and requiring a roll to work? Absolutely.



Only at the Godlike level of Control, which can cost up to 100/level. And yeah, I'd go with the 100/level cost for controlling time itself.
That's comparable to ATR, which, arguably, is a perfect example of time manipulation no?
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Old 08-20-2015, 10:49 AM   #47
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Default Re: Converting "Problematic" Spells to Powers

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Originally Posted by Desthro View Post
That's comparable to ATR, which, arguably, is a perfect example of time manipulation no?
Using Control is pretty much "You have to roll for it, but, you can also affect the flow of time for others." One just requires a much better Fast Talk roll vs the GM.
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Old 08-20-2015, 11:36 AM   #48
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Default Re: Converting "Problematic" Spells to Powers

That argument only makes sense if you price control (time) in the 100 range. I've never seen anything to suggest that as a price for control time before. The book says 'at least 30'. It also goes on to suggest generic bonuses for relevant tasks and basing distortions on those numbers, not the gravity rules given elsewhere in the control rules. It also shies away from going into too much detail.

Yes, a thousand points in control time should be sufficient. Of course, the abilities of such an advantage are much more expansive than the timeout spell. I also have yet to see someone raise objects to the jumper builds except the 'stop time' variation, and perhaps an accusation of being too complicated, targeted at no particular build in particular.
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Old 08-20-2015, 11:48 AM   #49
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Default Re: Converting "Problematic" Spells to Powers

I think I prefer the Jumper builds, but it smells a little of "all I have is a hammer" when what you really need is a pencil.

Jumper is potentially a very versatile hammer, but I dislike arguments based on "I'll just invent a dimension that works the way I need it to work, therefore 'that thing I want' is worth the cost of Jumper (One World Only)."

Insubstantial? No, I jump to a dimension that partially intersects ours!
Invisibility? No, I jump to a dimension where it overlaps so much that there is full physical interaction between the two, only things in THAT dimension can't be seen in THIS dimension.[1]

It's an uncomfortable precedent for me. Dimensions are part of world building, not "how my power works".

[1] Which, admittedly, explains why the Invisible thing can still see without two floating eyeballs being visible. However, that sounds like it should be the explanation for your Invisible (switchable) advantage, not "I have Jumper (The Invisible Dimension Only)".
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Old 08-20-2015, 11:56 AM   #50
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Default Re: Converting "Problematic" Spells to Powers

Regarding timestops:
Anyone else thought of adapting Bullet Time?
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