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Old 04-10-2024, 05:39 PM   #71
Dalillama
 
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Default Re: Magic on the TL 3 battlefield

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
No, you cast the Shape fire right next to you and then move the fire where you want to. You only need to Maintain the Shape Fire at long distances and that's not a problem. Maintaining requires no roll.

You cast Rain of Fire right next to you and that's where it stays.
Shape Fire is an Area spell, same as Rain of Fire. You cast it on a particular area and you can shape any fires within that area. You can't move the area after casting without metamagic. You also need to be maintaining your Created fire the whole time, or it will go back to needing fuel.
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Old 04-10-2024, 06:05 PM   #72
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Default Re: Magic on the TL 3 battlefield

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Originally Posted by Dalillama View Post
Shape Fire is an Area spell, same as Rain of Fire. You cast it on a particular area and you can shape any fires within that area. You can't move the area after casting without metamagic. You also need to be maintaining your Created fire the whole time, or it will go back to needing fuel.
Uh, the Shape Fire spell explicitly mentions that you can move a flame. "Moving a flame requires constant concentration (the flame moves at Move 5, on the caster’s turn). A natural fire cannot move to a place that it can’t burn, but flame made with the Create Fire spell needs no fuel and can move almost anywhere."
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Old 04-10-2024, 06:11 PM   #73
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Default Re: Magic on the TL 3 battlefield

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Uh, the Shape Fire spell explicitly mentions that you can move a flame. "Moving a flame requires constant concentration (the flame moves at Move 5, on the caster’s turn). A natural fire cannot move to a place that it can’t burn, but flame made with the Create Fire spell needs no fuel and can move almost anywhere."
Within the area of the spell, yes. If you have one hex of flame, and your Shape Fire spell covers an area 5 hexes in radius, you can move the fire between those hexes. That doesn't mean you can move the fire outside the area of the spell.
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Old 04-10-2024, 06:16 PM   #74
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Default Re: Magic on the TL 3 battlefield

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Originally Posted by Dalillama View Post
Within the area of the spell, yes. If you have one hex of flame, and your Shape Fire spell covers an area 5 hexes in radius, you can move the fire between those hexes. That doesn't mean you can move the fire outside the area of the spell.
I've never seen the spell interpreted in that way before.
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Old 04-10-2024, 06:35 PM   #75
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Default Re: Magic on the TL 3 battlefield

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I've never seen the spell interpreted in that way before.
There's no other way to interpret it; Shape Fire is an Area Spell. Area Spells affect an area, and that area can't be moved once the spell is cast. A spell can't move effects beyond its area of effect, thus Shape Fire can only move a fire from one part of the AoE to a different part of the AoE.
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Old 04-10-2024, 06:37 PM   #76
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Default Re: Magic on the TL 3 battlefield

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There's no other way to interpret it; Shape Fire is an Area Spell. Area Spells affect an area, and that area can't be moved once the spell is cast.
Yes they can, as long as the spell permits doing so. If you want something even more explicit than shape fire, look at Windstorm.
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Old 04-10-2024, 08:16 PM   #77
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Default Re: Magic on the TL 3 battlefield

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Yes they can, as long as the spell permits doing so. If you want something even more explicit than shape fire, look at Windstorm.
Yes, look at Windstorm: Windstorm specifies in the spell description that [unlike other area spells, hence its inclusion in the text of this one], the caster can move the area after the spell is cast. (Note also that Windstorm requires the caster to move with it)
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Old 04-11-2024, 08:21 AM   #78
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Default Re: Magic on the TL 3 battlefield

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There's no other way to interpret it; Shape Fire is an Area Spell.
So, one interpretation would be that when you cast Shape, the area paid for determines how much fire (in hexes) you can move of the possibly large existing fire that was your subject. This could matter when the enemy is Creating big fires, or you're just dealing with a large natural wildfire. You might not need to Shape the entire area of a California wildfire to carve a safe passage through it, for example.

If the Shape area defined the limits of motion, then what parameter determines how large of an area of fire the mage can Shape? If the area is both the limit of the Shape effect and the definition of the fire that can be controlled, how can you ever Shape a fire outside of its starting location? Shape a megahex of fire, and you've always got a megahex of fire. Can't go outside the border at all, though you could shrink it to a smaller area. Shrink that megahex, say to a single hex, to gain some "free" hexes of fire to move, and the only place you could put them is where those free hexes came from.
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Old 04-11-2024, 09:36 AM   #79
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Default Re: Magic on the TL 3 battlefield

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Originally Posted by Dalillama View Post
Yes, look at Windstorm: Windstorm specifies in the spell description that [unlike other area spells, hence its inclusion in the text of this one], the caster can move the area after the spell is cast. (Note also that Windstorm requires the caster to move with it)
Shape Fire also specifies in its description that the effect can be moved. Also, the caster moving is optional, not required (note that burning 100 fatigue for a radius 25 powerful windstorm that can lift 750 lb and move at speed 50 is quite possibly a better investment in destruction than create/shape fire anyway).
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Old 04-11-2024, 10:02 AM   #80
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Default Re: Magic on the TL 3 battlefield

Thanks for the input, Varyon, Anthony, and hal.

Sounds like Wizard Eye via Ceremonial casting is quite doable. That or with Lend Energy. Either way, it means you can have an otherwise TL3 society where the king (or whomever is in charge) would at least consider such an expenditure. If mages are too rare, there are better Spells upon which to focus. If wizards with Magery 1 (and the necessary Spell knowledge) or sufficient Enchanters with the necessary prerequisites and Spell knowledge are adequately available, you could have an entire surveillance states.

Oh, and to clarify:

At this point,* I still have a battered copy of GURPS Magic Second Edition** with its Spells and Enchanting rules. My understanding is that Enchanted Items can be partially or wholly self-powered. There are two ways of doing this. One is through the "Power" Spell, found on page 43 of this version of GURPS Magic. According to the GURPS Wiki, Fourth Edition still has some version of this spell, found on page 57 of GURPS Magic (for Fourth Edition).

Power is an Enchantment Spell that exists specifically to cover the cost of the Spells being cast through a Magic Item. It can be cast multiple times on an Enchanted Item, though it gets expensive pretty quickly, and carries the usual risks for the Item either picking up a Quirk or being destroyed due to Critical Failures. Each casting of Power reduces the Cost to Cast (and Maintain) a Spell by 1. Given how the Wizard Eye Item works, two castings of Power would mean the mage using the Item still had to page two Energy to activate it, and the Power Enchantment would then zero out the maintenance costs.

Assuming I didn't imagine this second option,*** one can also embed a Power Stone into a magic item to cover some or all of its Energy needs. A Wizard Eye Item, again with the risk from additional Enchantments, could be created that either incorporated a Power Stone. Whether it was seen as the primary or an emergency fuel source, this could provide something of a safety net when using valuable military property. Either the caster knows, once they're about to drop, to tap the Power Stone to land the Wizard Eye as safely as can be or once the Power Stone runs out, the wizard using the Item knows to use their own Energy to - again - land the Wizard Eye safely for retrieval (or just have it fly back to them, Energy permitting).

Why go on about this since we just established ceremonial casting is probably sufficient?

Besides more authoritarian governments, who might prefer the added control of Wizard Eye being a more restricted Spell but still be eager to have Wizard Eyes patrolling battlefields (or maybe the entire kingdom), there's always other Spells. I know I'm not the first to bring it up, but especially if we want to keep CP totals down to avoid excess exceptional wizards, magic items are another workaround.

Though, as I was trying to get at, having at least a few exceptional wizards is probably realistic as well. Whether because the king retains the services of a wizard who dedicated his life to his craft or because a wizard who dedicates his life to his craft can assume power himself, s'quite plausible with what we've seen in actual human history, and exceptional non-magical individuals.

*I actually promised it to an acquaintance about a month ago. Need to get it to him. ^^'
**Which is actually for Third Edition
***Meaning I couldn't find it in RAW in the time I had.
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