Are DX and IQ overly undervalued?

[Aldric]

This all falls apart when your GM asks you to roll a skill check with a different attribute.

[Cheeseball]

Originally Posted by Farmer

Did you actually read the discussion and conclusion.

Yes, I totally agree when it says:

Higher intelligent learners are better learners of English as a foreign language.

Therefore, teachers who teach English as a foreign language must consider intellectual diversity of learners. That is they should create a positive learning environment by paying more attention to learners who seem to be slow in learning English as a foreign language.

Learners should also bear in mind that intelligence is not the only influential factor in learning and other factors can compensate for being less intelligent.

Moreover, less intelligent learners should also know that practice makes perfect, therefore they must make an extra effort to learn English as the foreign language although it takes longer for them.

What I don't understand is why you now disagree with your own conclusion.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Cheeseball

I think this is a great achievement, because it differentiates very well the different capacities between an average person and a gifted person.

So you think there are people who take an introductory language course and after a semester some of them know a couple of words, most are at the expected level, and some of them are now as fluent as the greatest native orators?

[Cheeseball]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

So you think there are people who take an introductory language course and after a semester some of them know a couple of words, most are at the expected level, and some of them are now as fluent as the greatest native orators?

No, I think they either drop out and look for an advanced course (or something else), or they get distracted in class.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Cheeseball

What I don't understand is why you now disagree with your own conclusion.

The paper shows a "weak correlation" with intelligence, and that other factors were as significant or more. If Intelligence affected learning time by an order of magnitude that wouldn't appear as a weak correlation dwarfed by other factors, by definition.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Cheeseball

No, I think they either drop out and look for an advanced course (or something else), or they get distracted in class.

So you also earn points at a rate inversely proportionate to IQ?

[Farmer]

Originally Posted by Cheeseball

Yes, I totally agree when it says:



What I don't understand is why you now disagree with your own conclusion.

You are not reading conclusions, you are cherry picking words and applying your own context. I don't disagree with my own conclusion, and neither does the academic literature.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Cheeseball

I think this is a great achievement, because it differentiates very well the different capacities between an average person and a gifted person.

That's my point. It does NOT. It instead vastly overestimates the difference between an average and a gifted person measured against anything that has an objective standard. I don't care how gifted you are, if somebody who is capable of normal learning has spent 10 times as long studying something as you have, you are not going to be better, and yet that's an effect you can exceed with an IQ of 14 (well below what even stat normalization cultists start calling unrealistic) vs IQ 10, where you can get for 1 point (200 hours of study) what IQ 10 guy needs 12 (2400) to match. Start stretching that for the full range of normal PC IQ or DX scores (say 8 to 15) and it only gets worse.

[sir_pudding]

Except apparently IQ 14 guy got distracted or is trying to take a dozen courses at once and takes 2000 hours to earn a point or something?

[Varyon]

IIRC, GURPS actually has a weak correlation between IQ and language - a character with Broken comprehension sometimes has to make a roll against IQ to understand or be understood when communicating in that language, and various IQ-based skills take penalties for having Broken or Accented comprehension, so high IQ can make a character with Broken comprehension more readily able to communicate and help offset the penalties for Broken/Accented comprehension.

Now, if you want to make languages into skills, that's certainly an option. It will very likely mean that anybody who doesn't make a high-IQ character won't bother with knowing anything beyond their free starting language (as it now costs quite a bit to be fluent in other languages), and those with high IQ may end up extremely multilingual (when every additional language costs [1] for more-or-less full comprehension, it's tempting to grab a lot of them), so you'll have to decide for yourself if that's something you want at the table.