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Old 09-30-2018, 01:31 AM   #1
FeiLin
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Spear Master

I was looking through various Spear styles and options to make a Spear Master, and I was a bit intrigued by options such as Form Mastery (MA50), and using the Staff skill for +2 Parry. When it came down to points, it seemed it wasn't as effective as just ploughing down all points into the Spear skill, which felt a bit boring.

So, assume a character of DX 10, no other Advantages/Disadvantages. Spear and Staff skills are both DX/A, and mutually default at -2. Spear the weapon can be used with Staff skill at a further -2.

If I put 24 points into Spear, I'll have 16 for attacks and 11 for parry.

If I put 16 into Spear, 8 into Staff, I'll have 14 in both, so 14 for attack and still 11 in parry ((14-2)÷2 + 3 + 2 with the staff skill). And to be able to do so freely, I need another point in Form Mastery.

So, did I miss something or how do I make an exciting spear master whose point allocation also makes sense? I mean, I could spend the extra points for the "roleplaying value", of course, but it doesn't quite feel right.
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Old 09-30-2018, 01:49 AM   #2
Celjabba
 
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Default Re: Spear Master

iirc, the staff skill give you the option of a swing (cr) attack.
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Old 09-30-2018, 02:06 AM   #3
evileeyore
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Default Re: Spear Master

If you want a 'better' Parry I'd look at Weapon Fencer Perk out of Pyramid - 3-89 Alternate Dungeons II. It let's you treat a non-fencing weapon as though you can fence with it which gives the Fencing iterative Parries.
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Old 09-30-2018, 05:18 AM   #4
FeiLin
 
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Default Re: Spear Master

Kool, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
If you want a 'better' Parry [...]
Well, I'm looking for nice options/moves that makes a Spear Master feel like a Spear Master. I don't specifically want a better Parry, but the Form Mastery seemed like an interesting twist which not every warrior out there has.

If the only difference between a Spear Master and anyone using a spear is the difference in level, then it feels a bit 'meh'. If the only difference between a Spear Master and an [any melee weapon] Master is that they have Weapon Master or Trained By A Master specialised toward different weapons, that's also a bit 'meh'. Form Mastery seemed interesting because not every weapon lends itself to being used with complementary skills, but since it costs more it sort of defeats the purpose (I wanna become as good as possible with a spear).

And I know tactics and combat choices of course have great impact as well, but apart from the fencing suggestion, are there any options to customise (in this case) a Spear Master in unusual ways?

Last edited by FeiLin; 09-30-2018 at 07:03 AM.
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Old 09-30-2018, 07:26 AM   #5
Maz
 
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Default Re: Spear Master

Is on the phone so cant make a long response.

I would suggest you look at techniques. Stuff like swipe and trip and armed shoves/slams. Also targeted attack.

Btw. There is a perk that let you switch a weapon to another skill so you could use spear with staff skill.
Another good perk is grip mastery so you can switch to reverse grip for added dam.
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Old 09-30-2018, 10:16 AM   #6
ravenfish
 
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Default Re: Spear Master

I had always assumed that one could use a spear as a staff with the staff skill without penalty (apart from the standard -2 default from Spear to Staff, if Spear is the source of one's skill), and that the note in the weapons table about spear use defaulting to Staff skill at -2 applied only to spear-style attacks with the tip (since those are, after all, the only attack modes listed there in the table). I admit I have no explicit justification for this, but the fact that form mastery (and the notes on switching weapon techniques) discusses using a spear as a staff without mentioning any penalties seems to strongly imply it, and the fact that a dueling polearm can, per Low-Tech, be used as a staff with no to-hit penalty (albeit without a bonus to parry, since one has to swing around a big hulking axehead or whatever when maneuvering it) seems to lend support to the idea. If I am missing some explicit statement, could you point it out to me?

If, on the other hand, my interpretation can be permitted to stand, after spending one point on Form Mastery and a single point in Staff skill to get all the benefits thereof (while using the -2 default to get one's skill level with Staff), one would get a net +1 to parry with the spear (and a cool swing/crushing attack mode at only -2 to skill- very useful in any genre where targets are at least occasionally unliving or homogeneous).
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Last edited by ravenfish; 09-30-2018 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 09-30-2018, 10:27 AM   #7
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Spear Master

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeiLin View Post
So, assume a character of DX 10, no other Advantages/Disadvantages. Spear and Staff skills are both DX/A, and mutually default at -2. Spear the weapon can be used with Staff skill at a further -2.

If I put 24 points into Spear, I'll have 16 for attacks and 11 for parry.

If I put 16 into Spear, 8 into Staff, I'll have 14 in both, so 14 for attack and still 11 in parry ((14-2)÷2 + 3 + 2 with the staff skill). And to be able to do so freely, I need another point in Form Mastery.
I think your numbers are off here. The -2 to use a spear as a staff is only the default penalty - there's no extra penalty to use a spear as a staff besides that. So if you have both spear and staff skill at 14, your parry with the spear, when using it with Staff skill, is actually 12 (14÷2+3+2). So there is a benefit to getting Staff skill as well as Spear, and you just have to pay the 1 extra point for Form Mastery to take advantage of it on a turn where you want poke with the spear.
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Old 09-30-2018, 08:14 PM   #8
Varyon
 
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Default Re: Spear Master

The problem the spear master runs into is that GURPS skill defaults are kind of broken. A character with Spear-16 has Staff-14. He can spend [8] to change this to Spear-16, Staff-16 (putting the points into Staff), or he can spend [8] to change this to Spear-18, Staff-16 (putting the points into Spear). It's pretty obvious the latter is the better option, to the extent that the former is a laughable idea, but then you can never (unless wanting to basically throw points away) have a character who is equally good with spears and staves.

The easiest way to handle it is to treat the penalty for defaulting as a Technique, probably Hard. Now your spear master has a choice - he can grab Form Mastery and boost his Staff up to the same level as Spear for [4] ([1] for Form Mastery, [3] to negate the -2 with a Hard Technique), or he can spend those [4] to get a +1 to Spear (with Staff along for the ride, although he can't switch freely between the skills).
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Old 09-30-2018, 08:24 PM   #9
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Spear Master

Quote:
The easiest way to handle it is to treat the penalty for defaulting as a Technique, probably Hard. Now your spear master has a choice - he can grab Form Mastery and boost his Staff up to the same level as Spear for [4] ([1] for Form Mastery, [3] to negate the -2 with a Hard Technique), or he can spend those [4] to get a +1 to Spear (with Staff along for the ride, although he can't switch freely between the skills).
The more I’ve studied various martial arts the more I tend to agree with this general concept.
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Old 09-30-2018, 09:24 PM   #10
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Default Re: Spear Master

The above house rule is how I actually run all my martial art style games.

If skills default to one another, you pick which is the main when first purchasing it, the rest are techniques that you buy off.

Honestly, Melee combat needs a re-work. Like how guns had in that one article that I am too sleepy to find.
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