Gadgeteer - yes, again, but with some specific ponderations

[KarlKost]

Originally Posted by Kaspar

The numbers seem fine at first glance. Would really have test in a game. I always wanted to run/play a superhero game focused on genius gadgeteers changing the world.

Thanks for the imput. I was doing all this thinkering to plan a DF campaign actually with TL3/4, so I was thinking about ways to make functional adventure useful artificers WITHOUT having to properly need magic or alchemy (super science is fine). And I also wanted to keep it at TL 4 - so no Artificer building computers in my DF.

But I also wanted to make general rules for any gadgeteer.

Originally Posted by Kaspar

As I see it, MacGyver is the perfect example of a Gadgeteer without Higher TL. If you want to make futuristic stuff, take Higher TL and skills. Though, B473 states “-5 if the device is one TL above the inventor’s TL.” So maybe one TL+ can be reached for free?

A "common" engineer (or any other "techie") can make inventions 1 TL above, albeit with large penalties. He cant go above that thou.
A Gadgeteer however has now restriction on the maximum level he can reach - that's part of the advantage. In theory, a caveman from TL 0 could build a TL12 supercomputer in his cave using stone tools.
In practice thou he would need to be Hephaestus or Prometheus, because he would need some 100 in skill. But there is the possibility.

A Gadgeteer DONT need to take higher TL. Higher TL is for aliens from more advanced civilizations, or someone from a parallel reality with higher tech, or time travellers. It means that you were born in a civilization more advanced than the one of the setting.

That's NOT necessary for Gadgeteers. A Gadgeteer from TL 8 can make stuff from TL 10, 11 or even 12, if he can soak up enough the penalties (having visualization, for example). They are geniuses and visionaries that go beyond and above their time.

Which is why I think that Gadgeteers that dont have that futuristic view but are rather cinematically apt to toy with modern day technology not only fit a nice niche - Macguyver being the greatest example, but so is Batman - but it should also merit some nice limitation.

Which is why I suggested that being based on max TL above their own that their "vision" and imagination can reach - -5% for max 3 TL above, -10% max 2 TL, -20% max 1 TL above and -40% only own TL (and such gadgeteer would have to follow normal rules for inventions for 1 TL above their own)

Originally Posted by Kaspar

And what about the superscience TL^? I guess it’s up to the GM on which superscience is possible in this setting and on which TL.

Superscience is a matter of the setting, that's up to the GM to determine.

Originally Posted by Kaspar

Gadgeteers know how to get by with less, so working in lower TL should not be a problem. See “Reinventing the Wheel” in B473.

That's NOT what I proposed. What I was proposing was not a computer engineer that routinely build quantum computers to try to recriate a clockwork calculator. What I was proposing was for a guy from TL 8 who is a "retro fanatic" and can ONLY make wonderous gadgets from TL 5 for example.
The cartoon Ben 10 has an example of this. The cartoon is TL 8, but Ben 10 deals with aliens from TLs all the way up to 12. One of his enemies villains however is a super Gadgeteer that DESPISES ALL modern technologies, because he believes that the power of the Steam is more elegant - he's a Steampunk retro-tech fanatical. He IS from TL 8, but only uses TL5 Gadgets, and he walks in a giant Steam powered exoskeleton, much like the giant steam spider from the movie "Crazy Adventures of James West". He KNOWS how TL 8 works, he DOESNT have "Low TL" in his sheet, but he CHOOSES to use TL5 (including Superscience TL 5) instead