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Old 01-22-2009, 10:08 AM   #41
PPoS
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Sweden (but mostly this forum)
Default Re: Dogfighting Rules (Suggestions are welcome!)

First off; I just skimmed through it (I'm going to read the whole thing when I have time) and I'm not really in to the whole "cinematic" dogfights thingy. This is what I can come up with right now (this is a review of the document in it's current state):

Pros: Rules for creating a pilot, nice pictures, an interesting choice of setting (Gran Chaco War, Spanish Civil War etc.) and it seems to include quite comprehensive rules for cinematic dogfights.

Cons: Need alot of work to be done; the text is pretty strenuous to read in it's current state IMOO (needs a better setup), and there's too many things to keep track of (at least for me).

I've never used SOCS so I cannot really say if this is a good conversion or not, just wrote my first impressions of the book itself. Hope you like my little review :)
I wish I'd gotten this kind of feedback :)

Last edited by PPoS; 01-22-2009 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:55 AM   #42
PPoS
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Sweden (but mostly this forum)
Default Re: Dogfighting Rules (Suggestions are welcome!)

Here's something for a Weird War 2 campaign:

Foo-Fighter

These eerie “balls of fire” spooked and followed both allied and axis pilots during the last two years of the war, although they were spotted earlier. In daytime these objects appeared as shiny silver/bronze/gold spheres/discs/cigars but at night they glowed in different colors. You may alter this to fit any version you want; extra-terrestrial, elemental or german secret weapon, but this version assumes it's extra-terrestrial (actually extra-dimensional).

HP: 20 (Also; the living metal heals 1 HP/hour)
HT: 12
DR: 40
Cockpit DR: N/A
Hnd/SR: +5/3
Speed/aAccel: 1300mph/20
SM: -2
Crew: ?
Weapons: ? But damages aircrafts at 5 yards or closer with 2d burn damage. Can also "attack" powered vehicles (and electronics) with EMP; target must roll against HT-8 or be knocked out of action for seconds equal to the margin of failure.

Insubstantiality: A few American pilots said that they’d fired upon the strange “fireballs” but the bullets just seemed to pass straight through them. The Foo-Fighter may phase into another dimension; switching between physical or insubstantial form.

Invisibility: Most encounters with Foo-Fighters ended with the apparent vanishing of the strange craft. The Foo-Fighter may become invisible but can still be seen by Infrared devices.

Growth & Change Shape: Foo-Fighters seemed to come in different sizes and shapes. This ability makes it possible for the Foo-Fighter to grow in size up to a SM of +10 and change its shape from/to either: sphere, cigar or disc.

Teleport: The Foo-Fighters sometimes seemed to be able to vanish from one position just to appear at another during the blink of an eye. The Foo-Fighter may teleport itself up to 10 miles.

Radar Stealth: The Foo-Fighters didn't seem to show up on radar very often. Radar operators have a penalty of -5 to detect a Foo-Fighter.

Last edited by PPoS; 01-22-2009 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 01-23-2009, 03:48 AM   #43
sgtcallistan
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chatham, Kent, England
Default Re: Dogfighting Rules (Suggestions are welcome!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PPoS
First off; I just skimmed through it (I'm going to read the whole thing when I have time) and I'm not really in to the whole "cinematic" dogfights thingy. This is what I can come up with right now (this is a review of the document in it's current state):
Pros: Rules for creating a pilot, nice pictures, an interesting choice of setting (Gran Chaco War, Spanish Civil War etc.) and it seems to include quite comprehensive rules for cinematic dogfights.
Cons: Need alot of work to be done; the text is pretty strenuous to read in it's current state IMOO (needs a better setup), and there's too many things to keep track of (at least for me).
I've never used SOCS so I cannot really say if this is a good conversion or not, just wrote my first impressions of the book itself. Hope you like my little review :) I wish I'd gotten this kind of feedback :)
Thanks! Feedback greatly appreciated.

Cinematic plus a little more detail was intended; different results depending upon the equipment / systems in the targets' area hit, Damage Reduction according to structural materials, etc.

Setting-wise I decided to do the unusual; it was intended that the Nomonhan (Khalkin-Gol) incident would be the first scenario...

Text is densely laid out, or not clear? I tried to touch each thing required at each stage, and repeat them where other rules might assume you remember...
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Old 01-25-2009, 08:21 AM   #44
PPoS
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Sweden (but mostly this forum)
Default Re: Dogfighting Rules (Suggestions are welcome!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtcallistan
Thanks! Feedback greatly appreciated.

Cinematic plus a little more detail was intended; different results depending upon the equipment / systems in the targets' area hit, Damage Reduction according to structural materials, etc.

Setting-wise I decided to do the unusual; it was intended that the Nomonhan (Khalkin-Gol) incident would be the first scenario...

Text is densely laid out, or not clear? I tried to touch each thing required at each stage, and repeat them where other rules might assume you remember...
The writing itself is good, but the text is a bit messy and strenuous to read. So yes, too densley laid out. Otherwise: thumbs up!
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:58 PM   #45
DAT
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho
Default Re: Dogfighting Rules (Suggestions are welcome!)

A few thoughts/additions/questions ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PPoS
<snip>...

1. Spotting
Rather than Perception, how about Observation Skill?

Some other modifiers to consider...
Pilot Fatique ... negatives for being tired (loss sleep from last night's raids) or at the end of a long patrol, lost FP.

Initial position ... e.g., hidden in the sun /down in the weeds

Quote:
Originally Posted by PPoS
Modifiers for Spotting Roll[list]
...
  • Wingman
    (Not sure about this one. Either roll a second roll for the Wingman or use any modifier that seems to make sense.)
A second roll makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PPoS
2. Initiative
Once both combatants have spotted each other they must roll for Initiative. This works according to the rules of Partial Surprise in Basic Set (however, ignore the rules for "mentally stunned"!). Each combatant rolls 1d, anyone with Combat Reflexes gets +2, highest IQ gives +1 and having the Tactics (Air-to-Air) skill at atleast IQ-2 gets +1. The winner is the one with the highest roll.
Or could run it as a skill contest with the same modifiers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PPoS
3. Maneuvering
...
Modifiers for Pilot Roll
  • Aircraft's Handling Rating
    +/- depending on Aircraft
  • Aircraft Speed
    +1/-1 for each 2 aAccel faster/slower than target
Probably should have HT rolls for tight turns and rolls (with bonuses for the Accelleration Tolerance advantage).

Probably should be some FP loss with high G turns also.

Probably should have modifiers for how aggressive the pilot is flying:
e.g., Very Aggressive, Aggressive, Neutral, Defensive, Very Defensive


Quote:
Originally Posted by PPoS
4. Shooting
Shooting is handled just as it is in Basic Set. Use rules for range/speed as normal. An optional rule (which I use) is that the shooter does not need to take a turn to Aim (but add the Acc of the weapon anyway). Most pilots actually just fired a burst (or "squirt") against the target; this can be handled by using half of the weapons RoF. The target may dodge as usual, using his vehicular dodge of course. Once hits or misses has been worked out, go back to Step 3. Do this until the Initiative changes or one of the aircrafts has been blown out of the sky! Tally-ho!
WILL rolls every so often to keep in the fight after a few seconds, with bonuses for the Fearlessness Advantage, Bloodlust Disadvantage, and possitive moral; negatives for negative moral and other factors.

Maybe WILL roles for Green Pilots to get into close/optimal range and not fire as soon as they have a chance.

-Dan
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:26 PM   #46
sgtcallistan
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chatham, Kent, England
Default Re: Dogfighting Rules (Suggestions are welcome!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PPoS
The writing itself is good, but the text is a bit messy and strenuous to read. So yes, too densley laid out. Otherwise: thumbs up!
Thanks. Ideas taken on board.

New version e-mailed.

Last edited by sgtcallistan; 01-25-2009 at 03:34 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 01-26-2009, 05:48 PM   #47
PPoS
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Sweden (but mostly this forum)
Default Re: Dogfighting Rules (Suggestions are welcome!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAT
Rather than Perception, how about Observation Skill?

Some other modifiers to consider...
Pilot Fatique ... negatives for being tired (loss sleep from last night's raids) or at the end of a long patrol, lost FP.

Initial position ... e.g., hidden in the sun /down in the weeds
Could work, but I choose to go with Per. Attacking with the sun in your back is something I've added to the rules (but not yet posted on the forum), pilot fatigue is something that have slipped my mind though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAT
Or could run it as a skill contest with the same modifiers.
Please explain, which skill? I first thought that Tactics would fit, but there is already a place for that roll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAT
Probably should have HT rolls for tight turns and rolls (with bonuses for the Accelleration Tolerance advantage).

Probably should be some FP loss with high G turns also.
HT rolls will be incorporated into the system in the update along with FP loss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAT
WILL rolls every so often to keep in the fight after a few seconds, with bonuses for the Fearlessness Advantage, Bloodlust Disadvantage, and possitive moral; negatives for negative moral and other factors.

Maybe WILL roles for Green Pilots to get into close/optimal range and not fire as soon as they have a chance.
Will rolls is something that I decided not to use. If you have Bloodlust you just handle it like you would with any situation. I've noted that PC's not experienced with air-to-air combat will fire at longer ranges (and full RoF), simply because they want to down the enemy ASAP. So I think it actually works out by itself, otherwise the Aviator skill could be used to see if an inexperienced pilot would fire prematurely.

Thanks for the suggestions though! Keep 'em coming.
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Old 01-29-2009, 05:27 PM   #48
PPoS
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Sweden (but mostly this forum)
Default Re: Dogfighting Rules (Suggestions are welcome!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtcallistan
Thanks. Ideas taken on board.

New version e-mailed.
It looks alot better.

I'm currently also working on putting my rules in a .pdf file and will post it here as ASAP.
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Old 09-08-2009, 07:24 PM   #49
paladin15132
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Default Re: Dogfighting Rules (Suggestions are welcome!)

Is there a updated version of this floating around by chance?
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:29 AM   #50
sgtcallistan
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chatham, Kent, England
Default Re: Dogfighting Rules (Suggestions are welcome!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by paladin15132 View Post
Is there a updated version of this floating around by chance?
If you mean my 1930's air combat updated to say, 1940's (or even into Star Wars), this is easily done.

The cinematic nature merely means the relative ability of the aircraft and pilot is counted.
If the opposing planes and pilots are both capable of similar performance, it's tactics and the dice that decide.
Each 'plane type has a combat bonus based on it's MR, etc.

I believe I sent a .pdf of it before; given a contact e-mail add, I can attach it.

If you don't mean my document; never mind.
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