GURPS Monster Hunters: what will you do with it?

[tg_ambro]

You can't please everyone. I love the art, and I don't mind the delay one bit (even though my brother and I are so looking forward to this that we've been checking JD's predictions biweekly for about a month and a half.) I loved the art, and when I showed m bro, his jaw dropped a little and he said "cool."

That "cool" factor is important!!!

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Yet if you attend a diner that advertises its chanting quality, and you know the chanting is coming, and also know that the quality of the chanting is at least part of the reason that many of the patrons chose to eat there, surely you can understand the importance placed upon getting the lyrics right, yes?

The original analogy seems kind of strange to me, but... IF I were the type to go to such a diner, the chanting would still be a secondary consideration to the meal itself. I'd suppose that would be the case for many, maybe most, other patrons.

The particular artist isn't of great importance to me. As long as the artwork is professional, functional (in that it illustrates a point in the nearby text), and alleviates the monotony of blocks of text, I am satisfied. The waiting is probably what gets to more people, rather than the waiting for art specifically. There are plenty of things to keep me occupied while my downloader sits idle ;)

[Kuroshima]

Personally, my favorite GURPS ilustrator so far is Alex Fernandez (Dragons, Faeries, Shapeshifters, Deadlands: Varmints, also has done other art for SJGames, including, but not limited to Spooks and Zombie Dice). I really dig his style.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Yet if you attend a diner that advertises its chanting quality, and you know the chanting is coming, and also know that the quality of the chanting is at least part of the reason that many of the patrons chose to eat there, surely you can understand the importance placed upon getting the lyrics right, yes?

I think the problem is that those of us that don't care about the chanting don't have an option of a non-chanting restaurant (at least not one that serves anything we like) and that we are aware that hiring chanters adds to the cost of our meals (to really stretch the metaphor).

I agree with Icelander that it is somewhat distressing, and I'm not looking down on others here; just displeased with the end results. Games cost more than they have to, because they need non-illustrative art, and games are often produced with utterly inappropriate artwork (such as the Christopher Shy work on Transhuman Space) which can convey incorrect information about the game.

I don't hate visual arts, I actually quite like them! I even like Christopher Shy's work; I just think that the place for an evocative painting is a cool poster or print, or a coffee table book, not in a rpg book.

EDIT: The most distressing thing is that since the emphasis is on decorative and not illustrative art, games tend to lack useful illustrations altogether.

[PK]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

EDIT: The most distressing thing is that since the emphasis is on decorative and not illustrative art, games tend to lack useful illustrations altogether.

FWIW, I'd say we try to keep the art as illustrative as possible. Sometimes we fail at that, and we're aware of that -- we recently had a huge discussion about how art notes and instructions need to be handled. The end result was agreement that one of our primary goals must be to use art to embody what the nearby text is talking about, not merely to "look pretty." (This should always be doable with new art. If the budget for a niche book limits it to reused art, it may not be -- but in such a case we can at least try.)

For example, I gave some very specific instructions for MH1's art; e.g., "Here, I need a magician working a spell; this can be represented by energy waves, spirits in orbits around him, or something similar. Because this section is about making charms, it's important that he have some gear on a nearby counter -- candles, incense, strange versions of cooking utensils, what have you." You can judge for yourself if it worked; see the end of the Ritual Path Magic chapter when it comes out.

I just think that the place for an evocative painting is a cool poster or print, or a coffee table book, not in a rpg book.

And I'd say that the artwork in a book has a huge impact in the perceived tone of the book. A book with no artwork comes off as dry and academic. One with goofy artwork comes across as whimsical. One with dark artwork (lots of black ink and negative space) comes across as gritty and scary. And so on.

Hit your 3e shelf and flip through GURPS Illuminati without actually reading the text. Then flip through GURPS Cabal similarly. Then flip through GURPS Cops. Just from opening the book and glancing through it, you get three very different vibes from what you're looking at. Whether you want to admit it or not, this does affect how your mind interprets what you read. Artwork, fonts, positioning, and other layout issues are all part of what your brain is processing when you're reading a book.

We like to pretend that our minds are all intellectual and rational, but the fact is, human being like pretty things. Books with at least a little bit of (decent) artwork are always better reviewed and received than those with zero artwork; the latter have a weaker expression of tone, and fewer ways to break up the monotony of walls of text, and both factors lead to the book coming across as less interesting and exciting.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

And I'd say that the artwork in a book has a huge impact in the perceived tone of the book. A book with no artwork comes off as dry and academic. One with goofy artwork comes across as whimsical. One with dark artwork (lots of black ink and negative space) comes across as gritty and scary. And so on.

I agree, but I think this is a problem, not a feature. I'm going to cite Transhuman Space again here, the art is excellent considered alone, and it gets a lot of well-deserved praise, unfortunately it gives the impression that the setting is dark, gritty, and indistinct. The implied tone from the art is directly at odds with the setting as described, and it would have IMO, have been better served by different (even lower quality) art or only illustrations.

EDIT: It doesn't really matter. I'm in a minority here. Even textbooks now require this kind of decorative approach to images. The days of the old school textbook style of publications are gone. Those of us that miss it, are just going to have to suck it up. The market clearly supports the other kind.

[PK]

Pulling back to the topic of Monster Hunters specifically, I've just posted a sample monster hunter -- Sunny Fields -- at http://www.mygurps.com/m_samplehunters.html

Curious what kind of champion MH1 will let you build? Take a look and see . . .

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Pulling back to the topic of Monster Hunters specifically, I've just posted a sample monster hunter -- Sunny Fields -- at http://www.mygurps.com/m_samplehunters.html

Curious what kind of champion MH1 will let you build? Take a look and see . . .

Does Gun! include Crossbow? Because if not, I don't see any skill in using one, or the flame throwers, either.

[Gizensha]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

And I'd say that the artwork in a book has a huge impact in the perceived tone of the book. A book with no artwork comes off as dry and academic. One with goofy artwork comes across as whimsical. One with dark artwork (lots of black ink and negative space) comes across as gritty and scary. And so on.

Hit your 3e shelf and flip through GURPS Illuminati without actually reading the text. Then flip through GURPS Cabal similarly. Then flip through GURPS Cops. Just from opening the book and glancing through it, you get three very different vibes from what you're looking at. Whether you want to admit it or not, this does affect how your mind interprets what you read. Artwork, fonts, positioning, and other layout issues are all part of what your brain is processing when you're reading a book.

While I agree that tone of art impacts the tone of a work (the medium is the message, etc), I have to admit that... Well... I prefer my dark settings (in any media) to appear sugar coated and cute on the surface. I like my brutally dark horror to be illustrated by what looks like children's drawings, especially if the protagonist of the work supposedly drew them, etc. It's less comfortable that way; and I find the cognitive dissonance quite delicious.

[tg_ambro]

Originally Posted by Gizensha

While I agree that tone of art impacts the tone of a work (the medium is the message, etc), I have to admit that... Well... I prefer my dark settings (in any media) to appear sugar coated and cute on the surface. I like my brutally dark horror to be illustrated by what looks like children's drawings, especially if the protagonist of the work supposedly drew them, etc. It's less comfortable that way; and I find the cognitive dissonance quite delicious.

This hints at a deeper pyschosis. :-)