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Old 09-23-2023, 08:10 AM   #11
Jareth Valar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Default Re: Rorschach fighting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer View Post
Multiple techniques may be inefficient (well, they are), but it adds character to a character. They're not just better at the entirety of the skill, only selected components, and they stand out because their skill in those things is truly above most others.

Just as it's generally more efficient to take higher stats, it's not always desirable from a character perspective. If someone was self taught, it's quite feasible that they're better at those techniques because they used them a lot and practiced them, rather than spending time "efficiently" learning a broader base skill set.

IOW, a character with character can be more appealing and fun and interesting than one built with efficiency (min/maxed).
This all day long. Thank you Farmer. I'd rather take a character that's "point's inefficient" and has character as you say, than a hyper-optimized one. Much more fun to play for me and most of my group.

As to the OT. I haven't see the Watchmen in a few years, but IIRC he adapts to maneuvers and other people's styles very easily.

Personally, I'd give him a high Expert Skill (Hoplology), a MA style that has a lot of Technique Adaptation, like maybe Jeet Kune Do or another and grant him a special advantage that allows him, with a successful Hoplology roll (possibly after an Evaluate maneuver) to temporarily gain the bonus of that Style Familiarity for the combat, granting him the bonus for fighting someone with the same Style. For someone with multiple Styles, perhaps allow more to be gleaned with additional skill rolls (or Evaluate maneuvers) or even MoS on the original. The bonus would only last for the encounter/fight.

[EDIT]
I definitely agree with Pursuivant's take above with Dirty Fighting and all, though how high "sky high" is would differ from game to game.

Last edited by Jareth Valar; 09-23-2023 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 10-01-2023, 11:06 AM   #12
pawsplay
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Rorschach fighting

Characters of the Silver Age era tended to use a combination of YMCA boxing with a little judo and Greco-Roman wrestling. He's really not much of a stylist, per se. I'd say mostly Brawling and Wrestling, with just enough Boxing and Judo to get the built-in advantages. His only real Techniques of note are some hit locations, arm lock, aggressive parry, and neck snap. He has also, through training, developed probably +1 or +2 Arm ST, as demonstrated by his truly vicious close-in work.

He probably has Extra Attack 1. Compared to his relatively more grounded, action-movie level fighting moves, his Enhanced Dodge and Enhanced Parry are closer to "super" levels.
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Old 10-01-2023, 11:59 AM   #13
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: Rorschach fighting

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Originally Posted by pawsplay View Post
Characters of the Silver Age era tended to use a combination of YMCA boxing with a little judo and Greco-Roman wrestling. He's really not much of a stylist, per se. I'd say mostly Brawling and Wrestling, with just enough Boxing and Judo to get the built-in advantages. His only real Techniques of note are some hit locations, arm lock, aggressive parry, and neck snap. He has also, through training, developed probably +1 or +2 Arm ST, as demonstrated by his truly vicious close-in work.
This suggests a "Silver Age Super" MA style. Now that you've pointed it out, it appears consistent for a lot of comic book heroes, probably based on what the writers and artists for those comics knew about martial arts. Golden Age supers would probably use just Boxing with a few add-ons.
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Old 10-01-2023, 01:36 PM   #14
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Rorschach fighting

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Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
Golden Age supers would probably use just Boxing with a few add-ons.
Judo is possible. The original Black Canary was based around advanced training in it.

While I was thinking about the Manhunter (Paul Kirk) I found one of his Golden Age comics as a reprint. His recognizable Techniques were Boxing Punch:(Face) and (a highly Cinematic version of) Judo Throw.

I could also cite some Judo users from 30s Pulps. Karate was pretty unknown until well after WWII when GIs started bringing it back from occupation Japan and Okinawa. It was still quite new in the 60s when I was a kid.

You shouldn't count on all unarmed combat from the era being unsophisticated though. I first read about Ear Clap in (I think) Burroughs first Pellucidar book. The hero explained it as a dirty trick a wrestling coach had taught him.

There's also a unarmed combat sequence in Triplanetary where some bad guy (they weren't zwilnicks yet) tried a "Coup de Savate" on conway Costigan. Costigan stopped it with (in Gurps terms) a Leg grapple, a takedown, a Limb Wrench and a Stamp Kick (Head). A thoroughly modern looking combo from a book from 1934.
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Old 10-02-2023, 11:11 PM   #15
Infornific
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Default Re: Rorschach fighting

If you're looking at what Rorschach does in the stories and try to express it in game terms, something like Fairbairn Close Combat Techniques would come pretty close. High Karate & Judo, Improvised Weapons (Karate) Perk, Perk for Brawling techniques default to Karate & the Dirty Fighting perk maxed out. Also Throwing.

He's described as trained in boxing, but he doesn't use too many orthodox strikes. Regarding techniques, I tend to see them as showing "go to" techniques, like Kicking for a JCVD character. Rorschach has too broad an array of techniques for that - high skill plus Dirty Fighting for sneak attacks would cover it. Possibly buy up Exotic Hand Strike. Brawling could work for strikes but he hits pretty hard for his size so I'd be tempted to go with Karate. Extra Attack might also work and help in fighting groups.

As for his knack for improvised weapons - that could just represent player skill. But if you want it on his character sheet, you could use Serendipity limited to spotting improvised weapons. Or perhaps Expert (improvised weapons) with a Per based roll to spot ordinary household items that can be adopted to mayhem. Higher Purpose (Fight Crime) might also be appropriate.

I'd also note even in the original comic book Rorschach is pretty formidable. He can walk into a rough bar and everyone's paralyzed with fear. He can casually sneak onto a top secret military base. And he & Nite Owl had enough of an impact that the NYPD went on strike and the government felt the need to outlaw superheroes.
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Old 10-02-2023, 11:32 PM   #16
Infornific
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Default Re: Rorschach fighting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Judo is possible. The original Black Canary was based around advanced training in it.

While I was thinking about the Manhunter (Paul Kirk) I found one of his Golden Age comics as a reprint. His recognizable Techniques were Boxing Punch:(Face) and (a highly Cinematic version of) Judo Throw.

I could also cite some Judo users from 30s Pulps. Karate was pretty unknown until well after WWII when GIs started bringing it back from occupation Japan and Okinawa. It was still quite new in the 60s when I was a kid.

You shouldn't count on all unarmed combat from the era being unsophisticated though. I first read about Ear Clap in (I think) Burroughs first Pellucidar book. The hero explained it as a dirty trick a wrestling coach had taught him.

There's also a unarmed combat sequence in Triplanetary where some bad guy (they weren't zwilnicks yet) tried a "Coup de Savate" on conway Costigan. Costigan stopped it with (in Gurps terms) a Leg grapple, a takedown, a Limb Wrench and a Stamp Kick (Head). A thoroughly modern looking combo from a book from 1934.
Bulldog Drummond is also trained (in GURPS terms) in Judo. In real life that would part of a lot of military training circa mid 20th century. I'd say the typical action hero from the 1920s to the 1960s would have Boxing and Judo as unarmed combat skills, with a little Brawling for kicks and tackles. Wrestling would be an optional skill though some heroes would have Combat Wrestling. Circa 1970s, Karate becomes the main combat skill, at least for comic book heroes. Female characters are likely to adopt Karate earlier. I did once write up "Batman Jutsu" for 1940s superheroes. The thread also includes Kirk Fu plus Aesir23's Masked Avenger style.
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