GURPS Ultra-Lite revisited

[thrash]

Originally Posted by MrFix

Imho conditional injury has no business being in super-simplified take on GURPS, as it's definitely less simple than counting down HP numbers.

It is, until you have to explain the effects of wounds to characters with different HP levels (e.g., Brawny vs. Brainy). Then you have to get into "-10xHP" and such. My sense was that Conditional Injury is easier to present, though a bit more abstract, because it gets to effects directly.

I've been considering trying to cram the regular wounding system into the same amount of space and see how it turns out. I may give that a go this weekend.

[OldSam]

@thrash: Great work, thanks! :)

Originally Posted by Gollum

I don't know where those examples come from but I never saw any character with 46-52 skills. Most of them have only 10 to 20 skills. ...

Actually in my current ISWAT campaign every character (300 CP) has about 50 entries in the skill list. Generally, IMHO spec op campaigns are very demanding and also techniques (for instance Martial Arts) further extend the list... Yes, that's more than the most typical campaigns, but not an exception, too ;)

Originally Posted by thrash

... the central question: is a list look-up plus die roll really simpler than adding two numbers and rolling?

I think you can really say that none is definitely harder, probably quite equal, a matter of taste...

Personally, though, I have another problem with that mechanical part of Ultra Lite: This kind of adding two numbers (attribute + skill) for the roll is not part of the normal GURPS rules. That could bring up two issues: 1) Maybe it could be irritating and off-putting in case your new players are potentially ready to try out standard GURPS...? 2) If there is an experienced GURPS player in the group, he/she must be very careful not to mix things up at that point, maybe telling something wrong etc.

[thrash]

Originally Posted by OldSam

@thrash: Great work, thanks! :)

Appreciate the kind words.

Personally, though, I have another problem with that mechanical part of Ultra Lite: This kind of adding two numbers (attribute + skill) for the roll is not part of the normal GURPS rules.

It is, though. It's common with Wildcard skills ("Controlling Attribute," GURPS Power-Ups 7, p. 5) but sometimes occurs with regular skills as well ("Relative Skill Level," p. B171; "Using Skills With Other Attributes" and "Using Skills Without Attributes," p. B172).

That's not to say that moving from this system to full-spectrum GURPS won't require adjustments, but at least it's not a completely new system (as appears to be the case with the original GURPS Ultra-Lite).

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by thrash

You still have not answered the central question: is a list look-up plus die roll really simpler than adding two numbers and rolling?

It looks to me like an example of 'some people really, really hate doing math,' even when it's very simple arithmetic.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by thrash

You still have not answered the central question: is a list look-up plus die roll really simpler than adding two numbers and rolling?

And that question may be the good one, indeed!

To be honnest, I really don't know. Looking into a well organised list only requires a couple of seconds ... But I have to admit that doing the math required by your rules is really fast too ...

And, personnally, I love mathematics. I just know a lot of people who don't. Even adding the 3d6 together is quite slow for them.

(For the number of skills, I still don't agree. But no matter. It just means that we play GURPS differently: in my games, the player characters never have all the skills considered by Kromm as a mandatory for adventurers. Exactly as in TV series, there is one who is good to force entries, one to do first aid, one to drive, and so on. Which is why they need to be together to meet the challenge. And I fully disagree with the fact that it would be the skills that all ordinary people use regularly. I'm not at all someone considered as incompetent and still have got only two or three of them. Never forget that ordinary tasks done in non adventuring conditions get a +4 - if ever any roll is required. Ordinary people rely on default level for a lot of skills).

[safisher]

I'm really liking this and it's a long time coming. We need good one-sheet rules set!

[Anthony]

I suspect the fastest option in play, though slightly verbose on a character sheet and more work during character creation, is to just have table lookup for wounding (replace the second column with the actual percentages of the target's HP)

%   Dam Effect
10  1   -1 shock penalty.
15  1   -1 shock penalty.
20  2   -2 shock penalty.
30  3   -3 shock penalty.
50  5   major wound
70  7   major wound, move/dodge halved.
100 10  crippling wound, roll vs HT to stay conscious.
150 15
200 20  mortal wound, roll vs HT to survive.
300 30  mortal wound, roll 2x vs HT to survive.
500 50  mortal wound, roll 4x vs HT to survive.
700 70  Dead

pi-: count up two rows. pi+, cut: count down one row. pi++, imp: count down two rows.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by OldSam

Actually in my current ISWAT campaign every character (300 CP) has about 50 entries in the skill list.

I tend to like versatility. The two characters I've played most recently have (a) 70 skills on their sheet, for a total of 118 points and (b) 160 skills and techniques, for a total of 187 points. Quite a few of the skills are at default for both characters.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by johndallman

I tend to like versatility. The two characters I've played most recently have (a) 70 skills on their sheet, for a total of 118 points and (b) 160 skills and techniques, for a total of 187 points. Quite a few of the skills are at default for both characters.

Wow! The character with the hugest number of skills that I have is a heroic SF one with only 55 skills (for 450 character points) ...

I have to admit that when I run adventures, I prefer realistic characters. And in reality, if we learn a lot of things, we also forget a lot of things ... The number of things I learnt in middle and high school and that I don't remember anymore is just amazing.

No matter, it is another proof of GURPS versatility. We play it very differently but it is still the same game!

[thrash]

Here is a proposed replacement for the wounding rules above, based largely on GURPS Lite. It replaces everything from "A successful attack..." (about 1/4 down on the 6th page in my pocketmod version), on:

A successful attack does damage. Roll damage dice (as the GM directs) and subtract the damage resistance (DR) of the target to get penetrating damage. Multiply this by factors that account for weapon and target type: x0.5 for pi-, x1.5 for cut/pi+, x2 for imp/pi++, x1/3 for Unliving, x1/5 for Homogeneous. Round fractions down, but keep a minimum of 1 point for an attack that does any penetrating damage. This result is the wound damage.
Major wound: Any single attack that results in wound damage greater than 1/2xHP is a major wound. Roll vs. HT. On a failed roll, you suffer knockdown and fall prone. You are stunned and can do nothing until you succeed on a HT roll (one per turn). On a failure by 5 or more, you fall unconscious.
Subtract wound damage from your current HP. The effects depend on your base HP and how many HP you have left (which may be less than 0):
Full HP to 1 HP left: No effect.
Less than 0 HP: Roll vs. HT, -1 per full multiple of HP below 0, each turn, to avoid falling unconscious.
Less than -1xHP: Roll vs. HT at each multiple of HP less than 0 (-1xHP, -2xHP, etc.). On a success, continue to roll each turn to avoid falling unconscious. On a failure by 3 or more, you die. On a failure by 1 or 2, you are incapacitated and mortally wounded. Roll vs. HT every 30 minutes (starting now) until medically stabilized; failure results in death.
Less than -5xHP: You are dead.
Less than -10xHP: You are dead, and there’s not enough left to bury.

Regaining Consciousness
Full HP to 1 HP left: automatic after 15 minutes.
Less than 0 HP: Roll vs. HT every hour.
Less than -1xHP: Roll vs. HT once after 12 hours, and again any time you recover a hit point.

Healing
Roll vs. HT once per day of rest and decent food; success recovers 1 HP. Medicine or magic may increase this rate.