Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-28-2021, 12:36 PM   #21
Fennefell
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Default Re: Request for Feedback on Warhammer 40,000 Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by naloth View Post
If you are aiming for 150-250 point characters with playable Ogryn I can certainly understand that. It just seems that you already have that issue if you're going to have Space Marines (1k characters) mix with IG.

Honestly, I thought you were aiming for campaigns centered around the power (and point value) of Space Marines since the bulk of the text is devoted to them currently.

I am not intending Space Marines to mix with Astra Militarum as player characters. I really can't imagine a scenario in which an Astartes and Astra Militarum campaign would work. I can imagine a scenario in which an Inquisitor, flush with contact, allies, patrons, wealth, status, specialized skills, and rank, can work alongside the Astartes, but that only works because their domains are separate. I would severely caution any GM using this book to pick a theme and power level and stick with it; mixing Adeptas and power levels is almost certainly going to be a disaster without a lot of planning.

The Astartes section is ~17 pages out of ~60 pages. There's certainly a lot about the Astartes, somewhat because this document started from want to run a specific campaign, but there's just a lot required to run Astartes, and I want people to be able to run their Astartes campaigns using this book. They should also be able to run their Astra Militarum, Inquisition, Navis Imperialis, Arbites, Adeptus Mechanicus, and so on campaigns. The Arbites section is a few pages, because that's what the Arbites needs. The Astartes section is over a dozen, because that's what the Astartes need.
Fennefell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2021, 02:03 PM   #22
maximara
On Notice
 
maximara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
Default Re: Request for Feedback on Warhammer 40,000 Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fennefell View Post
Hey, I'm looking for some feedback on a Warhammer 40,000 handbook that I'm writing.
Have you seen Olaf Ostheimer's GURPS Warhammer 40,000 Conversion for GURPS 4th edition (2014)? It was a highly regarded source by some people and may give you some ideas.
__________________
Help make a digital reference for GURPS by coming to the GURPS wiki and provide some information and links (such as to various Fanmade 4e Bestiaries) . Please, provide more then just a title and a page number.
maximara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2021, 02:08 PM   #23
Fennefell
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Default Re: Request for Feedback on Warhammer 40,000 Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by maximara View Post
Have you seen Olaf Ostheimer's GURPS Warhammer 40,000 Conversion for GURPS 4th edition (2014)? It was a highly regarded source by some people and may give you some ideas.
I have seen it; thanks for bringing it up if I hadn't. I'd given it a decently thorough read when I started this, and went back right now to take a look again.

The honest truth is that I don't like it at all, and I think there's effectively no material that I can reuse from it. Olaf was going in a very different direction, which seems to work for some people, but is not useful to me.
Fennefell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2021, 02:19 PM   #24
maximara
On Notice
 
maximara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
Default Re: Request for Feedback on Warhammer 40,000 Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fennefell View Post
I have seen it; thanks for bringing it up if I hadn't. I'd given it a decently thorough read when I started this, and went back right now to take a look again.

The honest truth is that I don't like it at all, and I think there's effectively no material that I can reuse from it. Olaf was going in a very different direction, which seems to work for some people, but is not useful to me.
Pity I was hoping it could save you some work. But then again that is the advantage of GURPS there is no "right" way to do an adaptation. On a side note don't forget about split TLs like TL10 (Medicine 9) or that FTL is a sueprscience which does tend to muck up the TL scale a bit.
__________________
Help make a digital reference for GURPS by coming to the GURPS wiki and provide some information and links (such as to various Fanmade 4e Bestiaries) . Please, provide more then just a title and a page number.
maximara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2021, 02:58 PM   #25
Fennefell
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Default Re: Request for Feedback on Warhammer 40,000 Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by maximara View Post
Pity I was hoping it could save you some work. But then again that is the advantage of GURPS there is no "right" way to do an adaptation. On a side note don't forget about split TLs like TL10 (Medicine 9) or that FTL is a sueprscience which does tend to muck up the TL scale a bit.
I think there are certainly "righter" ways to doing adaptions, but that's my opinion.

The TL of the Imperium is between TL 9-11, depending on the item. I'll add ensuring that the correct ^ is added to places where FTL is used, which is a scarce few places. I am mostly staying out of adding TL to skills apart from where immediately relevant.
Fennefell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2021, 08:37 PM   #26
maximara
On Notice
 
maximara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
Default Re: Request for Feedback on Warhammer 40,000 Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fennefell View Post
I think there are certainly "righter" ways to doing adaptions, but that's my opinion.
Oh that I agree with. For example, I think that TOS with Kirk and company is better represented as TL(6+3)^ to TL(7+2)^ (Transtator based equipment TL6^) than TL11. Even wrote up a n insanely long line of reasoning for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fennefell View Post
The TL of the Imperium is between TL 9-11, depending on the item. I'll add ensuring that the correct ^ is added to places where FTL is used, which is a scarce few places. I am mostly staying out of adding TL to skills apart from where immediately relevant.
The interesting thing I have noticed after watching a lot of Isaac Arthur's channel is how rare megastructures in space are. In fact his series makes you realize that many Imperium worlds have a problem that isn't obvious - heat.
__________________
Help make a digital reference for GURPS by coming to the GURPS wiki and provide some information and links (such as to various Fanmade 4e Bestiaries) . Please, provide more then just a title and a page number.
maximara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2021, 12:48 AM   #27
Fennefell
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Default Re: Request for Feedback on Warhammer 40,000 Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by maximara View Post
The interesting thing I have noticed after watching a lot of Isaac Arthur's channel is how rare megastructures in space are. In fact his series makes you realize that many Imperium worlds have a problem that isn't obvious - heat.
The Imperium makes spaceships with onboard cathedrals. Down that road lies madness.
Fennefell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2021, 03:15 AM   #28
maximara
On Notice
 
maximara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
Default Re: Request for Feedback on Warhammer 40,000 Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fennefell View Post
The Imperium makes spaceships with onboard cathedrals. Down that road lies madness.
SM is 6*log(length in yards) - 2 or 6*log(length in km * 1093.61) - 2

The ◄ FICTIONAL STARSHIPS Size COMPARISON ► 3D 🛸 includes an Eternal Crusader from 40K around the 7:38 mark...of a 12:35 video. The Universe Mass Conveyor is around the 7:57 mark

Eternal Crusader (10 km): SM +22
Universe Mass Conveyor (12 km): SM +23

For comparison:
Executor (Star Wars) is +24 at 19 km
Independence Day's city destroyer clocks in at +25 for its 24.1 km
Citadel (Mass Effect): +26 for 44.7 km
V'ger (STtMP): +28 for ~78 km
Star Killer base (Star Wars): +33 for 660 km
Harvester Mothership (Independence Day): +38 for ~4,828 km
Earth (Wandering Earth)/ Mondas (Doctor Who): +41 for 12,742 km

If you don't care about being mobile there is Star Trek's rigid Dyson Sphere (+66) and Niven's Ringworld (+67)

On a side note a light second is SM +49 in terms of length.

Madness indeed.
__________________
Help make a digital reference for GURPS by coming to the GURPS wiki and provide some information and links (such as to various Fanmade 4e Bestiaries) . Please, provide more then just a title and a page number.
maximara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2021, 03:35 PM   #29
Jack Sawyer
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Request for Feedback on Warhammer 40,000 Handbook

Adapting 40K is always going to be 'headcanon-y' because the setting itself takes a rather loose approach to canon and continuity. Even between editions you can note over time both minor and major changes. And that's without adding all the spinoff material (Forge World, RPGs, the Black Library novels, etc.) It's been a major tripping point over most 40K-themed arguments I've ever seen or participated in, at least.)

One area such 'variation' occurs is actually the weapons. Plasma guns alternate between being thermal or explosive/mechanical. Meltaguns are microwave guns in one edition and superscience plasma flamethrowers in another. Bolters are rocket guns or gyrojet, and other times they eject casings and have recoil. Even lasguns aren't immune to this: have recoil, have barrels and muzzles, and occasionally even the 'las bolts' don't behave like actual lasers. Recent editions (6th onward) have leaned more into a 'pulse damage' laser weapon, but it doesn't mean those previous depictions are invalid. Maybe something akin to laser bullets.

Also Space Marines vs Ogryn is something I've seen as super-generalists vs specialists. Space Marines are great at everything, Ogryns optimize for strength and durability. So an Ogryn may do 'better' than a Space Marine but the Marine can bring other things to bear that outside specific circumstances give them the advantage. Of course, how Ogryn have been depicted has likewise been variable, so you have to take that into account, too.
Jack Sawyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2021, 07:34 AM   #30
warellis
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Default Re: Request for Feedback on Warhammer 40,000 Handbook

Quote:
Bolters are rocket guns or gyrojet, and other times they eject casings and have recoil.
A bolter is a gyrojet. It just uses a chemical charge to push the warhead out before its own thrusters ignite (in fact it pushes the bolt out fast enough that it can potentially wound or kill even without the bolt's own rockets accelerating it). That's not confusing at all.

Heck, I've seen similar weapons in another setting, except instead of using a chemical explosion to throw the gyroc out, instead a strong puff of air was used instead.

You could probably build a version in GURPS that uses electromagnetic acceleration to push the gyroc round out instead.
Quote:
Even lasguns aren't immune to this: have recoil, have barrels and muzzles, and occasionally even the 'las bolts' don't behave like actual lasers. Recent editions (6th onward) have leaned more into a 'pulse damage' laser weapon, but it doesn't mean those previous depictions are invalid. Maybe something akin to laser bullets.
Isn't it only Dan Abnett who generally uses that style of behavior for lasguns?
Quote:
Also Space Marines vs Ogryn is something I've seen as super-generalists vs specialists. Space Marines are great at everything, Ogryns optimize for strength and durability. So an Ogryn may do 'better' than a Space Marine but the Marine can bring other things to bear that outside specific circumstances give them the advantage. Of course, how Ogryn have been depicted has likewise been variable, so you have to take that into account, too.
Generally Space Marines can be peers to Ogryns in strength and durability, I'd say, but they're also a lot smarter, more skilled, a lot faster, and fluid in movement than Ogryns.

Many times in the novels, Space Marines are often noted by normal humans as being far more graceful and fast than you would expect for something so big (most humans come up to around chest height for Space Marines). In fact there is a term in-setting for normal humans being paralyzed with fear at Space Marines attacking, called "transhuman dread."

Like look at this from Angel of Fire by William King:
Spoiler:  
Ogryns, in comparison, feel more lumbering and dim-witted.

Last edited by warellis; 05-02-2021 at 07:45 AM.
warellis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.