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Old 04-30-2021, 10:17 PM   #311
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

BunkerTech Extended Catalog
The basic catalog is here way back at post 8.

Gardener’s Endtimes Catalyst Kit or G.E.C.K
So what happens after the all clear sounds and YOU have to restore civilisation? Well have no fear, those clever technicians at Bunkertech have come up with the solution for that too.

There are several optional Bunkertech units that can be used in this system.

Bunkertech Rock Remover(™) Unit

The first section is the size of a large filing cabinet and uses three strains of algae, it has three self contained bioreactors and produces two main compounds then combines them in an air conditioned mixer, wraps the result and presents it for use.
Produces
- 2 pounds of Dynamite like explosive per week
- Waste chemicals
Requires
- A moderate amount of power
- A moderate amount of water
- Paper
- Good air flow
- A lack of self preservation instincts
- Sulfur compounds
- One food unit of Bright red algal starter, Pink Algal starter and two units of Light yellow algal starter.
This unit can be modified to produce detonator substitutes

Bunkertech Instant Soil(™) Unit

This unit is designed to produce a blend of seed algae that break down rocks and sand to produce soil. This works best if the rocks are reduced to small pieces first, see above.
The machine is a hexagonal cylinder the size of a waste paper basket, multiple units can be connected together to increase the production rate.
Produces
- A gallon slurry every week that can be spread over rock and sand to produce soil.
Requires
- A tiny amount of power
- A moderate amount of water
- One unit of grey algal starter

There is also an included kit that contains a shovel, a heavy duty auger, some detonators and fuses. A short instruction sheet is included, it reads “Step one, Remove old soil as this may be radioactive. Step two, apply Bunkertech Rock remover(™) as required. Step three, apply BunkerTech Instant Soil, wait, when the desired depth of soil has been achieved, add seed and water (Seeds and water not included).”

Other Units in the extended catalog include:

Bunkertech Rad be gone(™) Unit
This unit contains the bioreactors and processing equipment required to produce some basic drugs to treat radiation sickness. Including potassium iodide, antioxidants, anticancer drugs. It contains eight large tanks and automated grinders, filters and dehydrators. Some of the internal processes use incineration so ventilation is suggested. Approximately the size of a large chest freezer.
Produces
- 60 pills a week
Requires
- A moderate amount of power
- A small amount of water
- 1 Jelly Cube(tm)*
- A selection of base mineral compounds, every year of operation.
- 1/10th of a Food Unit(tm) of each of the following algae, Dark green, Light blue, Salmon Pink, Light green, Green/blue.
- Small amounts of testing consumables.
*For Gel capsules

BunkerTech Mouthpaste(™) Unit
This unit produces a toothpaste substitute from the algae that produces diatomite.
Produces
- A quarter pound of toothpaste per operation (about a day)
Requires
- Mintyfresh(™) flavourant
- One food unit of Dark Yellow Algae
- Whiten Now(tm) bleach

BunkerTech Devegetator(™) Unit
This unit is the size of a standard fridge and contains its own bioreactor. A large tube is provided for external ventilation. A locked box is attached to the side, located inside is a flamethrower. This unit provides the fuel. It is theoretically possible to make a hydrocarbon fuel for a vehicle with this unit, but who would do that when nuclear energy works so well.
Produces
- 1 gallon of flamer fuel per week
Requires
- Apricot coloured Algal starter
- A moderate amount of power
- A small amount of water
- 1 Jelly Cube(tm) per week

BunkerTech Pharmocopia(™) Unit

This is a larger unit approximately the size of a standard shipping container cut in half lengthways. It includes fungal growing areas, plant cloning tools and cryogenically frozen samples, artificial lighting and an algal grafting medium designed to replace rootstock. A compact but well designed set of chemistry and pharmaceutical equipment lines a bench that runs the length of the unit. There is a U.V. sterilisation unit and autoclave included. The fine print recommends the use of a separate BunkerTech Food(tm) Foundation Unit to support this unit; this is to avoid cross contamination with food production algae.
Produces
From Algae
- Anti-oxidant
- Antivirals
- Antifungal
- Anti-Alergic
- Anticoagulants
- Anti-cancer
- Anti-inflammatories
- Poisons
From Plants
- Painkillers
- Stimulants
Numerous other functions but there is a lead time (likely measures in weeks) to clone the required plants.
From Fungi
- Antibiotics
- Psychotropics
From Combinations
- Dietary supplements
- Ether
Miscellaneous compounds such as sulphuric acid
Pills, salves and injectable medicines are available.

Requires

- A large amount of power
- A small amount of water
- A talented operator with the requisite skills.*
- Many long life consumable items
- A wide range of specifically coloured Food Units(™)

*There is a Big Book labeled Science that contains a few relatively simple recipes. (IQ - 4 to get a specific compound, rolled by the GM with a great deal of secrecy and likely a smile)

Additional Algae

Light Yellow Algae, Explosive Bulking compound
Bright Red Algae, Nitrogen Fixing
Pink Algae, Sulphur liberating
Dark green Algae, Cancer treatment
Light blue Algae, Chelating compounds
Salmon Pink Algae, Antioxidants
Light green Algae, Potassium Extraction
Green/blue Algae, Iodine Extraction
Dark Yellow Algae, Produces Silica rich compounds.
Bright Yellow Algae, Produces a bioethanol like compound
Yellow/green Algae, Neurotoxic
Dark red Algae, Antiviral
Duck egg blue Algae, An alternative antiviral
Blue/black Algae, Antifungal,
Burnt orange Algae, Anti-Alergic
Apple Green Algae, Anticoagulants
Violet Algae Algae, Anti-inflammatories
Yellow orange Algae, Grafting medium
Apricot coloured Algae, Biofuel production.

As with the original BunkerTech write up, all the properties attributes to algae here have there foundations in reality.
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Old 05-01-2021, 08:02 AM   #312
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

Quote:
Originally Posted by (E) View Post
Cyberpunk would be an interesting setting to explore, though there would be some complications that would require a higher word count, there are two entire food systems to start with, one for the wealthy and one for everyone else. High levels of international trade and specialization would have to be accounted for.
To go all in, you could look at the output from the OTEC plants, from the algal plume, from fishing and sea farming, from street level agriculture done by the Squatter and Maker tribes, and by scraping sea growth off the underside of the city.

And in terms of the design of YOU-Topia, being set up as an environmentally friendly sustainable city, you could look at how it was meant to work originally, being largely self-sufficient for a city of 4-5 million, and then at how it's running now, after two centuries of population growth and infrastructure decay.

Or to go minimalist, you'd just look at the OTEC output, and maybe the algal plume, to figure out how self-sufficient it is, which would give an indication of how much surplus is needed by other means- whether by importing for the rich or by scavenging for the poor, without investigating those details.

Either way, the end point would be to get some colour and detail, and maybe identify some weak points in the system that radicals, terrorists, criminals and survivalists might target in their various schemes.
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Old 05-02-2021, 07:44 PM   #313
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

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Originally Posted by (E) View Post
BunkerTech Extended Catalog
<snip>

BunkerTech Pharmocopia(™) Unit

<snip>

Requires

- A large amount of power
- A small amount of water
- A talented operator with the requisite skills.*
- Many long life consumable items
- A wide range of specifically coloured Food Units(™)
Was looking for a Macguffin for the PCs to recover whilst traveling through a ruined city. A couple of kilos of consumable chemical compounds, and a replacement sample of a rare algae (which had run out/mutated/been wiped out), is just the ticket.
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Old 05-22-2021, 12:23 AM   #314
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Bunyip View Post
Was looking for a Macguffin for the PCs to recover whilst traveling through a ruined city. A couple of kilos of consumable chemical compounds, and a replacement sample of a rare algae (which had run out/mutated/been wiped out), is just the ticket.
It's almost as if the colour coding system was deliberately designed to make things difficult ....

It's also always good to see the content here get used.

I've been working with Douglas over at Gaming Ballistic in what has become a protracted test and implementation of the Farming system I've discussed here. While very non-obvious and deliberately so, a fairly decent amount of research and calculation has gone into Gaming Ballistic's Norse game world.

I have consistent numbers for all kinds of economic details, from the number of geese to the number of carts. Crop yields, how many people in each profession (just a hint here, but there's lots of farmers) and localized and regional specializations. And there is far more detail than that.

On the off chance you have yet to see the kickstarter, check it out here.
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Old 05-22-2021, 08:58 PM   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (E) View Post
It's almost as if the colour coding system was deliberately designed to make things difficult .....
I'm blaming the government, and the faceless board of BunkerTech.
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Old 09-30-2021, 05:59 PM   #316
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

Elven farming

Assumptions

- Elves are long lived or immortal, as a result they favour high quality or long-lasting products. Their point of view is less focused on a strictly annual or seasonal cycle.
- Elves have a greater understanding of genetic inheritance allowing more advanced selective breeding of plants and animals. Alternatively they can use magic to obtain similar effects, this fits with the instances of elves having enhanced breeds of horses and the like.
- Elven technology diverged from the human norm, at TL 1 or 2. This suggests that they would not practice "Complete agriculture" but rather use a mix of domesticated species and wild sources to obtain the range of resources they need to sustain life
- Where possible/plausible Elven technology will be simple with higher quality, magic and/or higher skill making up the deficiency. This is likely to be expanded somewhat to include the design philosophy espoused by Lotus engineer Colin Chapman "Simplify, then add lightness", which suits a semi-nomadic lifestyle.
- Elves are omnivorous with similar requirements to humans, however they are not as reliant on grain crops. Among other things their assumed proficiency with bows seems to indicate meat is eaten, possibly often.
- This particular case the farming systems are designed for semi-nomadic and alternate technological agricultural production.* is discrete/non obvious, sustainable and relatively harmonious with nature. Considerable effort will be made to improve the quality of the surrounding environment. This may link in with how the culture uses and gathers magic.
- An inherent level of magic has some effect. Probably increased yield for a given area or increased yield for a given amount of work. It may also be applied to less directly such as by applying something like a glamour to magic springs and food caches.
- The elves in this example are more typical "Gaming Fantasy" in regards to the level of magic they have access to. Sidhe type elves, who are that closely tied to magic that they themselves have to follow the "rules of magic" are an example for another time.
- There may have been magical catastrophes in the past.
- Weigh in favour of Tolkien’s elves
- Skinny builds are indicative of a high energy/nutrition diet. large stomachs are loosely associated with lower quality diets.
- Temperate forest.
- Elves have some ephemeral social issues.
- Permaculture influences.
- Elven Hunter gathering is on the idyllic end of the spectrum, in this case.
- Elven vision means a better effort/reward ratio for hunters.
- a longer life span alters demographics, fewer children and elderly mean a higher percentage of the population is productive.
- There is a lower level of occupational specialization. The average Elven hunter/farmer/gatherer is a capable combatant in their own right for example. Forming a competent or highly competent militia is fairly easy.


Additional assumptions
- 20% Settled population and 80% Nomadic in an average year. Though this will vary based on need and circumstances.
- These Elves don't use "cool fires" to manage their environment, others in different climates might.
- Due to quality building materials, garments and their own biology, elves require less fuel for heating.
- A literate society.
- Lower population density.

Overview
Elven agriculture is similar in some ways to low tech human agriculture, not all of the population's needs are met with agricultural products, many resources are gathered from the (arguably quite managed) environment around them. Many of the techniques the elves use are similar to those the humans developed when they first began the process of agriculture, the elves, of course, have had many years to refine and evolve these methods in directions that suit their tastes and requirements.
The area where the elves live typically represents the most productive farmland possible, it's true that the elves nurture this area but the intrinsic quality seen here is to some extent present everywhere, just in very small quantities. Looking at it another way, in a human farming system there are very productive farms and in these farms there are even more productive fields, the elves only bother to farm the best bits of the best bits.
Elves only farm the top fraction of a percentage of the land area, during this technological era equivalent humans might intensely farm a fifth of the land area they have available. As human technology improves a larger percentage of a given area becomes productive enough to farm.

Permanent plantings
Gardens as Art.
A central part of almost any elven community is its garden, prestigious rulers have truly majestic gardens that are works of art that produce everything that can be found in nature and even generate benevolent magical energy.
While the potential exists for these gardens to be staggeringly productive, a high yield isn't the goal. Instead these gardens are primarily a source of seeds and genetics for other systems. If a human managed to get hold of say wheat seed from here they could increase the typical yield of their crops by a conservative 20% and further halve the instances of poor years and failed crops. While these numbers may not seem high it would likely have a revolutionary effect on the realm that acquired the seed*. The elves are fully aware of this value and protect their treasure accordingly.
One of the methods they use is hybridization, the elven application of this technique is optimised to reduce the risks of wildling plants taking over an existing ecosystem. The increased yield it produces is a happy side effect.
Other notable production from the central elven gardens is medicinal and related plants, numerous biomes are sustained in the larger gardens to best provide a wider range of ingredients. Quality is another factor that is valued above quantity, to dine on the produce of an elven garden is a memorable experience for visitors.

Orchards

One of the few permanent plantings for food in an elven garden are its fruit and berry orchards. To human eyes these look chaotic and inefficient, but crop density, companion plantings, consideration of individual tree performance, grafting, layered plantings and aesthetics are all considered. Various wild animals are encouraged within the boundaries to feed upon the multitudes of pests that might harm the crop. A significant portion of the yield goes to supply the wineries and breweries, some is preserved and the rest is simply enjoyed fresh.

Continued here.
Please check out Fantasy Folk: Elves
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Old 09-30-2021, 06:03 PM   #317
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Elven Farming Continued
Crops
In any given year a combination of experience, divination and need determines what crops, if any will be planted.

These are high energy foodstuffs, mainly grains, whose nutritional value is likely best utilised by the elves themselves, with other races possibly not gaining the full benefit of these foods, indeed in worlds where the elves are radically different in biology the foods may be mildly toxic to other races.

Gaps and Glades
Small gaps in the canopy of the forest, normally caused by trees or branches falling are exploited by the Elven farmers, plants, typically climbing plants, beans most notably (in warmer climates some of the giant yams of the genus Dioscorea would fit) have been bred in the opposite direction that human agriculture uses (shorter easier to harvest plants), the elven plants climb to canopy or sub-canopy height where they are safe from many, but not all pests.
An interesting switch here would be if the yams were bred to tolerate cooler climates. Depending on the variety the edible yam produced (which can take two years) weighs in some cases about 100 pounds. The genus is also widely used in both traditional and more modern medicine.
Food production isn’t the only form of organic production that would be undertaken in the gaps and glades of a forest. The bespoke nature of the farming system used will also include “Fiber”** crops (and to a lesser extent “Function” and “Fuel” crops, definitions of the Four “Fs” are in Gurps Realm Management), as the area used for production in this case is relatively small it would suit materials with a specific end goal. A typical glade would suit trees that grow tall and straight with little excess branch growth, this produces clean grained timber that would be ideal for arrows. A glade with poor light, windier conditions and shallower soil might produce a tree that grows slower producing a stronger wood, in that case a seedling with the best genetic pedigree for the production of a bow stave would be taken from the central garden and planted in a location ideally suited to the specific characteristics desired. Similarly a tree could be bred and grown for the heat it puts out when burnt, this will likely match the thermal output of charcoal (In our world good Osage Orange timber at 20% moisture content produces 8974 btu per pound vs charcoal’s 9700 btu per pound) but has other benefits, like transport and labour efficiency. The general productivity of the elven farming systems means not all of these glades have to be used for necessities, so here in what a human traveler would just call a forest are the carefully managed precursors of elven industry.

Redemption Lea

These are areas where an existing blight or curse necessitates drastic action. This technique may be used in other situations from time to time when absolutely required.
The area that is to be farmed as well as when it is farmed is selected based on divination and experience, it then has useful timber taken out then is cleared with fire and blessed, the fire is managed to produce biochar/terra preta. The enhanced fertility combined with divination and the reduced pests and weed competition means the yields and probability of success is remarkably high. Following the food crop the area is replanted densely in the appropriate forest species and later thinned resulting in a timber/forest products crop of high quality that doesn't significantly damage the ecosystem. Indeed as an end result of this farming system the environment is healthier.

Ash fields (dry years)
Fires are a normal part of the ecosystem and while the elves don't deliberately start fires to support agriculture, they do take advantage of fires that occur naturally. As far as crops go Buckwheat or an oilseed crop is the best fit for the conditions, though rather than a single crop a range of plants not unlike a traditional vegetable garden would also fit.

Flood Swards (wet years)
In years that are projected to be wetter than average, cereal or main crop production is timed to take advantage of flood damage. A flood tolerant crop (a parallel breeding to Japanese millet) is sown to both grow in the flood cleared land and stabilise the muddy soil, slowing sediment damage to the stream and river ecosystems. After harvest the area is likely cleared with fire before the original plant species are encouraged to regrow. The crops grown in this system benefit from reduced weed competition, a replenished soil and water transport for harvest. Mustard, brassicas and crops from the Gram family (related to chickpeas) will also be likely.

Advanced Hunting and Gathering
The nomad's home garden.
The earliest examples of human agriculture are accidental farming where viable seeds were added to middens. Some of these seeds sprouted and did well in the rubbish enriched soil. The elves developed this foundation in a different direction. As wandering groups of elves travel they create rubbish and scraps just like everyone else. The difference is that the waste produced is seen as something useful. The scraps are used as a foundation for small lightly managed gardens, placed in locations that are relatively safe such as high in trees, in bramble patches or even near the dens of carnivores. (Elven trail sign, elf friends, skill checks) This food is tailored to suit its purpose, it stays edible for long periods on the vine. It is specifically suited to elven biology and food preparation techniques and may even be unpleasant to consume by other races or without preparation. This is simply a side effect of selectively breeding a food source that is ignored by animals as much as possible.
Camps that are expected to last more than a fortnight will, provided the conditions are right, plant a water lentil crop. This is a relative of duckweed, but selective breeding has produced a faster growing and more palatable cultivar. In as little as ten days the crop can be harvested for a protein rich product. The selective breeding has also made the crop more desirable to animals and when the elves abandon the camp the local wildlife will quickly consume it, it's appeal also draws animals such as water fowl which may also end up in the pot if they arrive before the elves have left.

Continued here
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Old 09-30-2021, 06:09 PM   #318
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Elven Farming continued some more
Fantastic and Domesticated Beasts
The elves have a conundrum when presented with fantastic beasts, these are animals that do not have a place in the normal ecosystem, but extermination is a very permanent solution and one they would use only in extreme cases, after all, genocide is a lot to have on your conscience. So as a result the decision is made to manage the populations of fantastic animals. This is a spectrum rather than a simple black and white decision so this is simply presented as the "Average" response, not the blanket response. Given that these creatures are not a natural part of the ecosystem they would only be kept in small numbers, a given elven community would be unlikely to have more than one species of fantastic creature nearby. These creatures are also often confined to a specific range to minimize the disruption on the ecosystem.
Managing these populations of fantastic animals takes time and resources, culling individual animals is a part of that process and it would be wasteful to not use what is gained from culling the animals. These managed areas and populations are where the elves get many of their remarkable raw materials, silk from giant spiders, venom from manticores, leather from dire beasts and potentially many more. These raw materials may be integral to the wondrous creations produced by elven artisans or simply make their manufacture easier.
Similar to the fantastic beasts are the animals that the elves have enhanced, the horses that can travel hundreds of miles in a day, birds that bring word of danger, eagles large enough to ride, messenger birds with the power of speech as well as mighty forest animals that prove challenging to even the most experienced of elven hunters or invading foes. A mixture of careful breeding, animal husbandry and magic provides the elves with self perpetuating tools and resources far in advance of the more obvious technology they display.

Domesticated Animals
In human agriculture the more productive or easier to manage animals are raised almost everywhere, elven animal husbandry, if it exists, would use the animals that are native to a given area.
There is an animal farming method known as Holistic Farming that uses the grazing action of animals to replenish land and even reverse desertification. A similar method also focusing on the animals' place in the ecosystem could be used if the GM considers this a likely fit for the culture and climate. Typically very large herds of animals are moved over large areas and the grazing action is timed to be as beneficial as possible, encouraging new growth after the animals move on.

Domesticated Ecosystems
Rather than domesticating animals some elven groups instead domesticate whole ecosystems. These elves are incredibly knowledgeable and skilled hunters, the animals they kill are those whose death will benefit the greater animal population. Over the centuries the practices that improve genetic diversity, remove sick individuals and balance the numbers present with the food available will have a marked effect on the populations of animals they manage. This is why the elves have such animals as deer that are large and tamable enough to ride. Aurochs became cattle with human agriculture, the elves might desire these kine to become better game animals or perhaps a huge beast of burden. These are less fantastic than the ones mentioned above, but these changes have been wrought without the use of magic, just time and selection.

Noble Animals
These bridge the gap between the fantastic and the domesticated, for brevity’s sake I’ll leave these unexplored, but they could be guardians, a means of control or something else entirely.

Notes
One aspect of tribal organization is a lack of specialization, in large jobs for instance every one in the tribe is chipping in, however if everyone chipping in has the appropriate professional skills the results will be different. The effects may be hard to precisely quantify but in this instance it is assumed that projects that would typically be undertaken by a whole village are made to the highest specifications and are built to last.

Roads are notable by their absence so canoes and single pack animals are used for transport, shank’s pony will also be common.

This kind of optimized agriculture is weak to disruption.
There is a long lead time in establishing an elven farming system. Simply gaining the knowledge of the local conditions that is required by the elves is the work of decades and that is just to choose where to farm. Many of the crops are planted with the harvest several times further away than the human equivalent.

Lembas Bread

For lembas to be as nutritious as possible it would likely be made (at least partially) from a grain with a high energy and protein content. Topping this list is Teff, (the basis of the bread Injera in our world) which is higher in energy than wheat or rice and has a similar protein content to wheat, see here for a comparison https://foodstruct.com/compare/teff-uncooked-vs-rice
Teff suits a flood sward system best, although it is reasonably versatile.
In Tolkien’s writing the “Corn” (presumably the older English usage, meaning grain) from which lembas is made originates from before the elves reached the Undying lands and was essentially a gift from the gods. It is harvested by hand by a select group of elven women without metal tools and held and distributed by the highest ranking elven female. The grain grows quickly and is immune to the predation of insects as well as other blights. The elves are very protective of this grain as it represents something intrinsically linked to Aman in their minds. The fast growing nature of this grain is similar to Teff and suits the agricultural system used in the Gaps and Glades as well as the Flood Swards. It is intolerant to colder conditions. A single Lembas has about 2500-3000 calories and isn’t filling*** with some extrapolation and mild guesswork a similar sized loaf of bread is maybe 450 calories so very, very roughly lembas grain is 6 times as energy rich as wheat. Not to mention the presumed vitamin and mineral content and the more nebulous benefits.

*For argument's sake a TL 3 human peasant farmer produces on average enough food for 7 people (Their family and two other people). (71% of the population has to farm, excluding bad years) Removing half the bad years from the equation increases the average food yield by a conservative 12 percent, further Increasing the typical yield by 20 percent. This means that the peasant farmer now produces enough food for nine and quarter people.(54% of the population has to farm, excluding less frequent bad years)

**Technically timber plantations can produce “Construction Fiber” because, I presume, calling the product wood is too generic to justify the consultant’s fee.

*** The books say not very filling, the movies say the opposite.

A write up of a specific location will follow over the next few days
These posts where written in support of GURPS Fantasy Folk: Elves so feel free to share this.
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Old 09-30-2021, 11:45 PM   #319
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

Thanks for doing that!

I read an earlier version of this while writing GURPS Fantasy Folk:Elves, so appreciate the ideas and info!
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Old 10-01-2021, 09:35 PM   #320
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

I really like the elven agriculture posts and will get a lot of use out of them (they particularity tie in with a version of Gloranthan elves (plant people) and thie forests.


Have you translated any of it into gurps rules? PC level, city stats, or realm management? What kind of tech levels would you recommend for the purely mundane version of this? Would Gardening be sufficient or would you also need ecology o some other skill?With magic, I'd probably add supersciene modifier to the effective TL.



I'm thinking that it would be a mix of mundane skills at high levels with extra time to manage the forest and potential magical additions. FOr example, growing a hedge wall around an area: it starts off as a sparse are gradually growing to an impenetrable wall with time and management (per Gurps Plant Spells pg 6).



Maybe something like a 5 pt UB (Forest engineer?) and relevant skills and spells?
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