[Basic] Advantage of the Week: Magic Resistance

[Otaku]

I haven't done anything with Magic Resistance in 4e. Back in 3e, I don't recall running anything with it unless it was part of their Racial Template. Honestly, one or two levels wasn't usually too bad; our PC mages usually had high enough Skill levels to soak the penalty. If we were trying to keep a few Spells on, or healing in a Low Mana zone, the cumulative penalties would have mattered, but it didn't seem to come up.

Looking at it now, I

• Think Magic Resistance ought to have been folded into the other forms of Resistance/Immunity.
• Think low levels of Magic Resistance ought to be relatively common in stereotypical fantasy settings, at least if the standard magic system is in effect.

Though I suppose those seem a bit contradictory, given it means a price increase.

[weso12]

Hot take, Magic Resistance preventing you from using Magic and forcing you to pay extra to get rid of what is effectively a taboo trait it enforces is BS. Especially in a lot of settings magical beings themselves are resistance to magic. It enforces a bit too much of a campaign assumption that would only be acciplable in some settings.

Also it gets messy when your species is cappable of using magic has magic resistance but YOU don't use magic, which forces you to waste points in your racial template.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by weso12

Hot take, Magic Resistance preventing you from using Magic and forcing you to pay extra to get rid of what is effectively a taboo trait it enforces is BS. Especially in a lot of settings magical beings themselves are resistance to magic. It enforces a bit too much of a campaign assumption that would only be acciplable in some settings.

Also it gets messy when your species is cappable of using magic has magic resistance but YOU don't use magic, which forces you to waste points in your racial template.

This is definitely part of why I like the Resistant idea. No bells or whistles, you just get a +3/+8 to resisting magic. And breaking down Resistant into more discrete levels sounds like a good idea in general and would help replace MR easily.

Note I'm fine with Static being fully nothing with a giant enhancement to allow your own powers (magic) because it's entirely built in mind of being mostly upside, definite downsides. Being able to entirely deny someone using magic on you in any conceivable way is powerful, and being able to both have it and get upsides often is worth the giant price tag (of what, like 75pts?), at least in a setting with only one power source. I even like how Immunity to Magic and Static compare as 30pt traits.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Otaku

• Think Magic Resistance ought to have been folded into the other forms of Resistance/Immunity.
• Think low levels of Magic Resistance ought to be relatively common in stereotypical fantasy settings, at least if the standard magic system is in effect.

So Magic Resistance would cost 10/15/30?

Another alternative would be Static, from Powers, which costs 15 points if you can "brute force" through it.

[Michael Cule]

I think I've only ever used this as a plot device on NPCs.

It's the reason that the courts can't use magic to check their evidence or that they got retired from the Army when they lost an arm.

Not a problem when magic isn't available as a commercial service of course.

[Anders]

The downside of penalizing healing magic is brutal, so I've never seen any PC take it. Unless the PCs have no access to magic (but others do).

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Anders

So Magic Resistance would cost 10/15/30?

Another alternative would be Static, from Powers, which costs 15 points if you can "brute force" through it.

Yes, though what I like about Resistance is that it feels a little more... well... mundane. Though I suppose one can argue the same about Static; if the setting includes folks who can use [insert fantastic element], then why would it be any more unusual for folks who can use [insert fantastic anti-power]? One can always design a world where (for example) magic is common but anti-magic is rare *waves at Black Clover* but nothing says the reverse cannot be true, or both being common.

Another thought, demonstrating what Magic Resistance and 3e Psionic Resistance does right: affordability via incrementalism. Which brings us to:

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

This is definitely part of why I like the Resistant idea. No bells or whistles, you just get a +3/+8 to resisting magic. And breaking down Resistant into more discrete levels sounds like a good idea in general and would help replace MR easily.

This also sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure what multipliers are appropriate for the lower costs. Does one just redo the entire thing, giving a per level Price? Pull a Damage Resistance and say that, if you want immunity, just ask the GM how much you need to buy to be functionally immune? Still keep the "Full Immunity" price but redo everything below that point? I know this may sound like I'm actually trying to discourage it, but I really would like to know what people think are solid guidelines for this! XD Whether for mild benefits that add flavor to low CP characters, or for tailoring your build to hit the exact numbers you want in this situation, it sounds useful.

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by Anders

The downside of penalizing healing magic is brutal, so I've never seen any PC take it.

Ah, so people miss the joys of the Switchable enhancement.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Ah, so people miss the joys of the Switchable enhancement.

+100%. That is also pretty bad.

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by Anders

+100%. That is also pretty bad.

Moreover, Switchable Magic Resistance seems to require a Ready maneuver to switch, which is a problem when you're bleeding out while unconscious. A "Hostile Spells Only" enhancement would seem to be in demand- it would require judgement calls and a certain amount of reading intent, but it would hardly be the first place where the magic system brings those issues to the forefront.