[MA] Wrestling with Weapons

[kenclary]

Originally Posted by Icelander

This is Shoving People Around* and requires a roll against ST, DX or best grappling skill, whichever his highest. On the other hand, Sir Michael is not grappling the enemy with his best grappling skill, he is grappling with a technique of weapon skill**.

Due to Sir Michael's Power Grappling Perk, the highest of the three options given above is ST-based Wrestling at 26. But is he allowed to roll against Wrestling when he has a foe grappled with a weapon skill? If not, can Power Grappling affect weapon skills when they are used to grapple?

By a strict reading, he may use ST/Wrestling at 26.

This does not seem horribly unreasonable. He's likely not doing anything funny with whatever grip he has; he's more-or-less using it as a point of contact for dragging his foe around (or bringing his foe off-balance, if we were talking about takedown). There's nothing complicated about the armed grapple (and there's no leverage benefit, since he's not, say, trying a Sweep).

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by kenclary

By a strict reading, he may use ST/Wrestling at 26.

This does not seem horribly unreasonable. He's likely not doing anything funny with the whatever grip he has; he's more-or-less using it as a point of contact for dragging his foe around (or bringing his foe off-balance, if we were taling about takedown). There's nothing complicated about the armed grapple (and there's no leverage benefit, since he's not, say, trying a Sweep).

I'm inclined to think the same.

I wonder if that's the auctorial intention?

In any case, if he wanted to try a Sweep, he has that at full Two-Handed Sword too. Quite the armed grappler, our Sir Michael.

[Gigermann]

Is there any good reason (other then RAW) why Armed Grapple couldn't default to (the better of) both the Grappling Skill and Weapon Skill?

A more RAW-friendly approach might be to consider the Grappling Skill as "complimentary" to the Armed Grapple Technique.

[kenclary]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I wonder if that's the auctorial intention?

I would guess so. The design of Armed Grapple doesn't seem like an afterthought or accident.

Iirc, the bits of detail specified for Armed Grapple and Arm Lock were added in the playtest. Something larger and more broadly applied would have been beyond the scope of the book (again, speaking from memory, and not authority).

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Gigermann

Is there any good reason (other then RAW) why Armed Grapple couldn't default to (the better of) both?

I'm fine with Armed Grapple being a technique of weapon skill. What is lacking, however, is any guidance on what skill to use subsequent to the initial grapple.

Nothing in the technique description for Armed Grapple suggests that it is meant to be used for takedowns, pins, shoving people around, shifting grip or anything else. It's for establishing a grapple using a weapon. The technique description notes you can follow it up with a choke, takedown, lock or other options; but it doesn't say that such options use other skills than usual.

So regardless of what Armed Grapple defaults so, that doesn't help with what to use for an armed takedown. That is simply a technique that is not included in MA. Should one create a technique that defaults to Armed Grapple? Perhaps. Or one that defaults to weapon skill at some penalty? Perhaps again.

But I'm more comfortable with simply using ordinary grappling skills at that point. After all, getting someone you have grappled to the ground is a matter of body positioning, balance, feel, shifting weight and a lot of other things that don't change whether or not you have a length of wood in your hands.

Originally Posted by Gigermann

A more RAW-friendly approach might be to consider the Grappling Skill as "complimentary" to the Armed Grapple Technique.

I suppose I'd allow that, but as that is simply a +1 for anyone who can make an unmodified skill roll, whether that someone has skill 12, 15, 20 or 30, that's a pretty minor effect.