Starting Wealth, What cost of Living gets you, and Cost of a Sedan

[Farmer]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

I could not disagree more... that what that 100 point is spend for on wealth... Security their continued ability to play a wealthy character... If the comb buy a plot monetary windfall, and don't spend the points on wealth then I will have them burn though it but if they pay the point the then their money tank keeps on getting toped up and the get to stat at their status level

A sword can break, a home can be damaged, a $100,000- piece of jewellery can be stolen. You can easily, as a GM, continue to make wealth available, but specific items are not protected, imho.

If my character with 100pts of wealth (it's basically an Action character) uses her wealth to buy a Maserati and then use it in a car chase and it gets damaged, she'll have ot pay to have it fixed or replaced. That she will continue to have that wealth to do so is protected by the points, but not that specific car.

(For record, she's never lost a Maserati in battle...)

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

yes and missed my point of the armed car would be, and would not be "lost" if brought into a fire fight.

If it gets shot with a anti-tank rocket it is and the insurance company probably isn't going to be very helpful. I'm trying (apparently badly) to say that the vague handwavy "80% rule" accouterments of Status have the absolute least plot protection of any gear a player has. They can be as arbitrarily lost as they can be invented. That's the price of that flexibility.

[roguebfl]

I have nothing against temporarily lost off status item when the plot calls for it, sure they might total Maserati, but I'm not about to replace it with a Lada bue they lost it, it will be replaces with equal stars car as the Maserati they lost, even another Maserati if that's the character's tastes.

Same with a sword... now Excalibur or the Falcon might be a good idea to buy signaur gear to srvive, bit the Fight is going to have the ability to replace their tools

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If it gets shot with a anti-tank rocket it is and the insurance company probably isn't going to be very helpful. I'm trying (apparently badly) to say that the vague handwavy "80% rule" accouterments of Status have the absolute least plot protection of any gear a player has. They can be as arbitrarily lost as they can be invented. That's the price of that flexibility.

From time to time, I do agree with Sir Pudding...

;-)

Here is how I handle things.

In my games players can use items bought with the 80% of their starting wealth. And they actually do it. Clothes (sometimes evening and classy dress), car, personal computer to make research, etc.

But...

1) To be bought with the 80% of starting wealth, an item must be the kind of item that everyone with the same level of wealth and status (i.e. cost of living) will have at home. An ordinary car for an averagely wealthy character, or a fancy new one for a filthy rich character, for example. But no armor car. If the character wants an armor car, he has to pay it with the 20% of his starting wealth. It is aventuring gear.

One of my players, in a Call of Cthulhu campaign, wanted a personal library about occultism for instance. It corresponded perfectly to his character. But since it is rare to have such kind of books - and because they are especially usefull in this kind of adventure, I decided that he had to pay it with the 20 % of his starting wealth. Contrary to his ordinary Ford T, clothes and watch...

2) If an ordinary item is used during an adventure, it can be destroyed during this adventure. And the character will have to buy it again... A classy dress can be blood-stained and cut or pierced diring combats, a car can be destroyed during a crash...

There are two reasons which explain why we don't take part in a car chase with our car or why we don't climb walls with classy dress during nights. A) It's dangerous. B) Our car and our classy dress are expensive and we can't afford buying it again several times in a year.

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If it gets shot with a anti-tank rocket it is and the insurance company probably isn't going to be very helpful. I'm trying (apparently badly) to say that the vague handwavy "80% rule" accouterments of Status have the absolute least plot protection of any gear a player has. They can be as arbitrarily lost as they can be invented. That's the price of that flexibility.

Hm...I suppose you are right. We are probably talking past each other. Nothing the characters own in my games (except signature gear) has plot protection. The 80% doesn't have less than the 20%...none of it has it. On the other hand, I don't go out of my way to deprive people of gear if they use it as a sort of punishment for making their 80% adventure relevant.

ETA: I don't have plot protection...because I don't have plots (that isn't exactly true, but for the sake of comparison)...I'm pretty simulationist so I tend to think about things like--They are driving an expensive Mazaratti (or a crap car) and they have chosen to get into a car crash and they failed a control roll. Well, now let's see what effect that is. I never think--Man! They are getting all sorts of adventure use out of a car that they got with their 80% and that 80% shouldn't be used for adventures...so let me think of a reason to deprive them of it!

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by rosignol

Same as the house, you're still making loan payments on the car.

Or it's paid off, but a few years old and no longer worth the new price.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by trooper6

ETA: I don't have plot protection...because I don't have plots (that isn't exactly true, but for the sake of comparison)...I'm pretty simulationist so I tend to think about things like--They are driving an expensive Mazaratti (or a crap car) and they have chosen to get into a car crash and they failed a control roll. Well, now let's see what effect that is. I never think--Man! They are getting all sorts of adventure use out of a car that they got with their 80% and that 80% shouldn't be used for adventures...so let me think of a reason to deprive them of it!

That is exactly what I do!

There is no need to search a plot drawbacks when players use their non-adventuring gears during an adventure.

They want to wear a classy dress? No problem... But least combats often destroy clothes. One bullet in the arm or one knife blow in the stomach and they will have to throw an expensive suit away.

They want to use their nice car? No problem either. But the least car chase become very risky for it... And foes firing on them will inevitably damaged it!

Adventures are risky for people, but also for their equipment.

So, unless using their ordinary gears in ordinary situations, the characters will eventually have to pay them with their cash (monthly income or 20% of their starting wealth).

The only difference is that it is much quicker to suppose that they have it at home untill they have to buy it again rather than to ask the player to list everything before the beginning of the very first adventure.

Originally Posted by RyanW

Or it's paid off, but a few years old and no longer worth the new price.

Yes.

The most important, at least, to my mind, is the flexibility of the system: the player doesn't have to worry about each piece of clothing, handkerchief, watch, pencil and sheet of scratch paper. 80% of his starting wealth and that's all!

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by trooper6

Nothing the characters own in my games (except signature gear) has plot protection. The 80% doesn't have less than the 20%...none of it has it. On the other hand, I don't go out of my way to deprive people of gear if they use it as a sort of punishment for making their 80% adventure relevant.

Ok, I'm apparently speaking Martian. Gollum actually pretty much articulated what I was trying to. However I feel compelled to attempt to dig myself out of this a bit.

• "Plot" protection for equipment can come not just from Signature Gear. Allies, the Vehicle and Pet perks, and Gadget based abilities can also give it.
  
• Purchased gear doesn't have this protection. This applies to 100% of Starting Wealth and all purchases thereafter.
  
• The difference between the 80% and the 20% is that it can be anything reasonable at all and therefore works something like Gizmos. However unlike Gizmos "anything reasonable" is pretty much restricted to ordinary items, that aren't generally as useful in a fight, disaster, or other crises. No armored suped up spy-cars, no attack helicopters, no sniper rifles, no professional burglars kits, no top quality mountaineering gear. Nothing that makes the contents of your grass hut/studio apartment/suburban house/McMansion/private moon different from all the other tribesmen/college students/middle class wage-earners/billionaire executives/Imperial princes.
  
• When a PC buys something directly (at character creation with the 20% or in play) he gets to specify exactly what it is from what is available. "I'm buying a new whatsit. It's going to be a top-of-the line model with both the Foo and Bar options. I'm also going to get a Ruggedized version if there is one. Ooh and I want it in red!"
  
• When a PC buys something indirectly (either with the 80% or through paying Cost of Living) he doesn't get to specify anything about it. That's up to the GM.
  Player: "Hey do I have a whatsit back at my apartment I can use?"
  GM: "Sure, why not? Most people like you would."
  Player: "Does it have the Foo option?"
  GM: "No of course not? Are you made of money? Hmmm... it's actually a Cheap whatsit."
  Player: "Darn, well I probably don't want to take that to the place of exciting danger when we do that dangerous thing. Can I try to get a deal on a used military surplus whatsit with Foo?"

Was that in English now?

[SionEwig]

Slight sideways shift on the general topic, but how do people treat dependents (as in those of a PC) as regards cost of living?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by SionEwig

Slight sideways shift on the general topic, but how do people treat dependents (as in those of a PC) as regards cost of living?

Any financial dependents whether or not they are actual Dependents are covered by the PC's CoL. Not all dependents are Dependents and vice versa, though. A character can have a wife and kids that aren't ever endangered by adventure or a character can have a Dependent that he's not financially responsible for.