Destiny: What would a world dominated by it look like?

[RedMattis]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Such a world would have a high level of fatalism and/or stoicism, especially among people with "non-positive" Destinies. Think of human societies where the notions of predestination or dharma are commonly accepted.

Such societies might also be incredibly callous by our standards. E.g., "We don't need to help these beggars because it is their fate to always be beggars."

In some cases, however, universal Destinies could be used as early & easy "occupational testing." E.g., If destiny can be revealed in early childhood the parents of the kid with "Will become a great musician" destiny know to get them into music lessons. That would mean that most everyone knows their role in society, leading to more social stability and fewer cases of the Peter Principle or Dunning-Kruger Effect.

It might mean slightly fewer wars. For example, the kid with the Destiny of "Will rule all Britain" gets adopted by the current king if he's not already the king's heir. If there are multiple kids with that destiny, the king adopts them all and sets up a power sharing agreement &/or firm line of succession. No revolution, civil war, or coup d'etat required.

In any case, there will be professional fortune-tellers who can detect what a person's destiny will be. They might function like police or first responders to limit the harm that a person with a bad destiny will do (e.g., the cops in Minority Report), or as psychologists to help people with exceptionally good or bad destinies come to terms with their fate.

We might take into consideration that even if a Destiny is specific interpreting it correctly might be non-trivial.

Never mind that destines could be dramatic but still a bit fuzzy in their nature.

E.g. "Will Become a great musician" vs "Will become a renowned musician".

The latter could mean he'll bumble around doing rather poorly and eventually become known as the musician that insulted the church, got executed and made an example for future generations. Or maybe his actions led to a long and bloody revolution.

If destiny is itself is open-ended then people still need to work for to guide their destinies. On the extreme end perhaps even fairly straight forward destinies could be meddled with. Consider f.ex. a savvy prince cursed to "be a failure as an heir and bring ruin to the kingdom". Perhaps he might attempt to 'trick' the curse by bringing 'ruin' the kingdom by attempting to reform it into a noble republic.

[RedMattis]

Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade

I frankly once found it very tricky making a Destiny known to a single player work out. The PC unquestionably died (I would have had to do some major, obvious, and perhaps even game-breaking changes to keep them alive). I had to twist things so that the wording of the Destiny was still valid even though it wasn't what was expected. I don't remember exactly what the Destiny was, but it was something like, "You'll die in the light of Barnard's Star." Well, they died during the daytime. So it, um, just happened that there was an inn very close named Bernard's Star Inn, and sunlight was shining through the star-shaped symbol on top of the inn....

In GURPS-rules terms I wouldn't really permit that type of destinies to be so specific at the 10-point value. The example was something like "Die in Water" which is really common.

Besides, don't forget that nothing says the character can't get beaten unconscious. If f.ex. the player with "Will die in water" screws around with the guards and gets arrested for something with the death penalty then he might serendipitous have his hanging noose snap only to have an enraged nobleman point at a trough and instruct the guards to drown him.

You should not permit stuff like "Die at Sea" in a campaign set a hundred miles from the coast. That type of Destiny is supposed to threaten the player fairly frequently in return for the power of its plot-protection.

I could see a more expensive Destiny being more generous. I'd peg a Destiny like "Live to see a hundred years" at 150 points f.ex., since it is comparable to Unkillable 3 (without an Achilles's Heel).

Edit: You can do a lot of fun stuff with even the 10-point version though. Imagine something like "Die from a Heart Attack when he hears of the death of his beloved", and then have said "beloved" be an Ally, Dependent, or other player character where said character has f.ex. Unluckiness (aspected: danger) [-15] (and nothing like Unkillable for obvious reasons).

[Alden Loveshade]

Originally Posted by RedMattis

In GURPS-rules terms I wouldn't really permit that type of destinies to be so specific at the 10-point value.

I agree; thanks for pointing that out. I probably should have clarified the game session I described wasn't in GURPS. Giving everyone a destiny would, however, I think be very difficult in GURPS.

[Black Leviathan]

"Destiny" could mean a lot of things, even in the context you seem to be treating it. Effectively it's nothing more than knowing something about your future. But that could be good or bad and isn't necessarily noteworthy. Your Destiny could just be to have a child that bears a child who does something good or terrible. You could be destined to call attention to a serious problem when you die. By definition your destiny can't be specific so it can't be something you work towards or against directly. It's just out there waiting for you one way or another and you have some information about it.

So here are some things you'd expect to see in that world:

Fatalism would be high - If your future is foretold then there will be some measure of people who aren't interested in exploring other possibilities. A lot of people would simple do whatever is expected of them and wait for destiny to take them. You might find less art or free expression in that world. People might be more accepting of bad circumstances.

Order would be default - With a large portion of the population driven towards something they can count-on there isn't a lot of room for searching or giving up or directionless chaos from people. Like it or not you know where your life is going. If you knew you're not destined to be wealthy, why would you blow rent money on lottery tickets. There will be some chaotic behavior discussed later but for the most-part you're going to see a society with a lot less chaos and more acceptance of things as they are.

Post-Destiny Crisis - Not all Destinies will end with your death or triumph over evil. You could be destined to be hospitalized at a young age and end up ending a family feud and then what? A lot of people will reach their destiny and depending on their level of investment in getting to that point they may not have any idea what to do. Many people will self-destruct or obsess about finding another destiny or just waste into apathy believing nothing else in their life makes a difference.

Destiny Rebellion - If there is a societal acceptance of Destiny then regardless of government there will be certain theocratic elements. In order for society to maintain continuity adherence to your destiny good or bad has to be observed. For one: if I'm destined to build revolutionary tractor and you're destined to lead a revolution on that tractor, you're gonna be ****** if you think I'm not doing my job. For another: if your destiny is too vague you might do serious harm to yourself or others scrambling to figure it out. On some level the government would have to involve themselves in Destiny running smoothly. Because of that the ultimate rebellion against society would be rebellion against one's destiny. It could be seen as romantic or idiotic or dangerous but its human nature that some of us will not do as we're told even if fate will never give us a choice, and the act of fighting your destiny would bring consequences from authority.

Spiritual Quackery - If destiny is real then why wouldn't other forms of spiritualism be real? And if I don't understand my destiny maybe a fortune reader or spiritualist could give me answers? A world with accepted supernatural phenomena would have whole industries of spiritual fraud from con-men to very sophisticated and culturally acceptable destiny nudging practices. "Want your child to have a great destiny, consultation with our Fatalists is free."

The Spiritual Sciences - Human beings can't just have stuff that changes the world that they won't try to understand. There would be an entire science dedicated to Destiny with established theories and disreputable pseudo-science and a history of laughable misgivings about who controls destiny, how it's applied, and what forces drive you towards yours. The Nature of Destiny would make most of the study highly theoretical but that doesn't make the study of it any less serious.

[PTTG]

You can find many communities even today who believe that life is ruled by destiny. A world where everyone had a Destiny-like trait would probably be much like the real world, with the addition of more accurate forecasting of various disasters or boons.

Minor Destinies are written into the RAW, I don't know why some people are ignoring those. I imagine that many people will have quirk-level destiny, like "Will father many children," and it will be just as easy to turn that around into being an unmarried schoolteacher or author.

That said, major destinies aren't necessarily going to change the world, just the narrative of the story -- and everyone is the protagonist of their own story. The destiny "Your death will mark the ruin of your family," might be that of a random low-level mook who, in getting killed in round 1 of the fight with the big boss, no longer brings home a paycheck for his four siblings and widowed mother.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by RedMattis

You should not permit stuff like "Die at Sea" in a campaign set a hundred miles from the coast. That type of Destiny is supposed to threaten the player fairly frequently in return for the power of its plot-protection.

That kind of thing, I might haunt the player with. He decides to move to the desert in the center of the continent? Unbeknownst to him, until after he thinks he's safe, the old name for this territory was Mare Harenae, the Sea of Sand.

[Alden Loveshade]

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

"Destiny" could mean a lot of things, even in the context you seem to be treating it. Effectively it's nothing more than knowing something about your future. But that could be good or bad and isn't necessarily noteworthy. Your Destiny could just be to have a child that bears a child who does something good or terrible.

Actually, that could be an extremely significant Destiny. I'll avoid going into graphic details here.

For someone who doesn't have children, or for someone who does but it only applies to future children, they could simply avoid having intimate relations. Their life could continue indefinitely. Even if it applied to a woman who was already pregnant, she'd know that until the fetus was viable she would not die.

This is I think a major reason why the specifics of the Destiny in GURPS are by default not known to the player/PC, although they might possibly get hints.

But in the Destiny mentioned above, even if only the GM knows the PC has to have a child for the Destiny to be fulfilled, the player may never have their PC have intimate relations. (And yes, I'm ignoring force as that might well not be fun for the players or the GM.)