Skill Question: Smuggling and Camonflage & Holdout

[nerdvana]

Why aren't there defaults for Smuggling from Camouflage and Holdout? They are fundamentally the same thing (hiding objects so that others cannot find them) with the major differences being assumed environment in one case and scale in the other. One would think those fundamental similarities would translate into a default.

[jason taylor]

Are they? There are a lot more aspects to smuggling then just hiding. Just to start you have to find the business contacts without finding the Law.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

Are they? There are a lot more aspects to smuggling then just hiding. Just to start you have to find the business contacts without finding the Law.

You are confusing the vernacular meaning of "smuggling" with the meaning of the GURPS skill "Smuggling." On p. 221 of the Basic Set, this is defined as "the ability to conceal items in baggage and vehicles"; it's stated that "you can also use it to hide an object in a room or building." That's fairly narrowly focused on a specific task.

Finding buyers would be a different skill. In fact, it would be Merchant skill, with "-3 for illegal goods, unless you have Streetwise at 12+ or specialize in such goods." Though I suppose you could also use Forgery to fake a tax stamp.

If there were such a thing as "Professional Skill: Smuggler," it could probably do the things you're thinking of. But it's preempted by other skills.

Bill Stoddard

[nerdvana]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

Are they? There are a lot more aspects to smuggling then just hiding. Just to start you have to find the business contacts without finding the Law.

Really?

Originally Posted by GURPS Characters (the Smuggling skill description)

This is the ability to conceal items in baggage and vehicles. You can also use it to hide an object in a room or a building. Roll against skill to hide an item from casual inspection. In an active search, the searchers must win a Quick Contest of Search vs. your Smuggling skill to find the item.

I don't see anything in it about using the skill to find contacts or on the law about smuggling or anything of that sort...

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by nerdvana

Really?



I don't see anything in it about using the skill to find contacts or on the law about smuggling or anything of that sort...

Bill already covered that. The first reply probably just thought about the meaning of the word rather then looked up the skill. Reasonable error.
As to why no default well they are quite a bit different in applicaiton.
Holdout is hiding on a person and smuggiling in a building or vehicle.
Camoulfalge would be used to hide the person, vehicle or building rather then something in it.

[nerdvana]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Bill already covered that. The first reply probably just thought about the meaning of the word rather then looked up the skill. Reasonable error.

Bill's reply wasn't up when I started mine and I didn't see it when I posted mine. Sorry if it seemed out of line.

Originally Posted by Refplace

As to why no default well they are quite a bit different in applicaiton.
Holdout is hiding on a person and smuggiling in a building or vehicle.
Camoulfalge would be used to hide the person, vehicle or building rather then something in it.

But wouldn't they be similar enough to allow some sort of default?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Bill already covered that. The first reply probably just thought about the meaning of the word rather then looked up the skill. Reasonable error.
As to why no default well they are quite a bit different in applicaiton.
Holdout is hiding on a person and smuggiling in a building or vehicle.
Camoulfalge would be used to hide the person, vehicle or building rather then something in it.

I actually wasn't trying to address the question of defaults at all. I was disagreeing with Jason's post, which I think is a misreading of the rules.

I still don't have a specific position on Smuggling defaulting to other skills. But I would suggest that Camouflage could sometimes be used as a complementary skill for Smuggling: You have a hidden compartment in your house or car, and you want to cover it up with clutter to discourage a thorough search, say.

Bill Stoddard

[DanHoward]

I'm thinking of merging the two skills together and allowing an optional specialization for each.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by nerdvana

But wouldn't they be similar enough to allow some sort of default?

I don't see any reason to think so, no.

Camouflage is totally unlike the other two. There's a conceptual similarity between Smuggling and Holdout, maybe, but hiding things on your person and hiding things in a vehicle don't actually seem to have much in common in practical terms.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by nerdvana

Bill's reply wasn't up when I started mine and I didn't see it when I posted mine. Sorry if it seemed out of line.

But wouldn't they be similar enough to allow some sort of default?

Ok, your reply to him just came across a little snippy and when someone is wrong its nice to corect them in a good way. Especuially if there trying to be helpful. Bills (WHSWHS) post was a nice example of pointing out the error which is why I pointed it out in my reply. There is a LOT of material in GURPS and often people go by what the name of something sounds like it means rather then the GURPS version of its actual game effect.
His reply pointed out he error and at the same time rather diplomatically pointed out a reason someone might have made the error.

Originally Posted by whswhs

I actually wasn't trying to address the question of defaults at all. I was disagreeing with Jason's post, which I think is a misreading of the rules.

I know. That was what I was referring to in my first sentence, sorry I was not more clear and explicit.