Help controling a zombie raising necromancer

[DarbyMcD]

I am somewhat new to GMing GURPS and could use a little help. I have a player that has the zombie spell. He has been very aware and restrained, but I was wondering how it is suggested to handle his ability to raise an army of zombies if he wanted to. Is it minion as puppet? But does that mean he can't use the spell in the dungeon? Does he have to sort of reserve the ability to raise them (like pay for 4 zombie minions before he does it) or how does that work?

Once he does raise them, how do you stat them? The last encounter they killed a giant spider. Could he raise that and what would it stat out to? The spell says skills as in life, but that can be crazy powerful if you raise some boss.

Thanks for any insight.

[Polydamas]

Kromm's suggestion is that GURPS Magic Zombies are stupid and need to be micro-managed. Lots of people kill them or unsummon them on sight. So over weeks to months in an uncontrolled environment, they get themselves killed, stuck, or lost.

GURPS Magic has the template for zombies.

An Ally Group of Zombies gives you a sustainable pool of zombies without having to spend game time finding new corpses to raise. This is just like Wealth gives your character an income, credit, etc. without spending play time finding and working a job.

[sir_pudding]

Any official gravesite will have Final Rest cast on it. It is very hard to raise an army this way.

[mlangsdorf]

The general rule in GURPS is that anything you don't pay points for is temporary. If he makes a horde of zombies but don't pay CP for the Ally Group, you are perfectly within your rights to have him face off against a hostile Dungeon Saint with Improved Smite (3d bu, cosmic ignores DR, only against undead and demons, in a 16 hex radius, every second) and set them all on fire for the 3-4 seconds it takes to burn them to ash. That's kind of heavy handed and extreme, but so is an horde of zombies.

It's perfectly acceptable to cast Zombie in a dungeon, at 8 energy and 1 minute per casting, and you get the Zombie template (Magic p 152) applied to the stats of whatever you killed: ST +1, IQ -2, and a bunch of advantages and disadvantages. The most significant in Slave Mentality, so you get a bunch of low-IQ minions who do exactly what you tell them to do and nothing else. It's reasonable to require a Concentrate maneuver to give complicated orders to the zombies, anything beyond "get those guys over there!"

Based on the DFRPG humongous spider stat block, a zombie giant spider would be ST 20, IQ 2, HT 13, DR 3, Unliving, etc. Maybe it's the DF games I've played, but that doesn't strike me as particularly dangerous or scary. If you're worried about the spider's power, you could make a reasonable ruling that the toxic followup from the bite is a biological process that doesn't carry through the zombification, but I don't really think it's a big deal.

Finally, the best way to control this problem is the social contract at your table. Your player doesn't seem to want to create a zombie horde. Just remind him that if he does create an unreasonably large zombie horde, you'll respond with similar unreasonable escalations like Smiting Dungeon Saints and anti-necromancer ninja assassins. Then set some boundaries, get agreement from your player, and the issue hopefully doesn't come up.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by DarbyMcD

Is it minion as puppet?

Undead raised by the Zombie spell are treated as equipment unless the character pays character points for an Ally.

But does that mean he can't use the spell in the dungeon?

The wizard can cast the spell whenever he wants, provided he has the time and the corpse and can pay the energy cost.

Does he have to sort of reserve the ability to raise them (like pay for 4 zombie minions before he does it) or how does that work?

No, but the character could give them plot protection by turning them into Allies using bonus character points. This could be done any time bonus character points are being spent.

But undead as Allies is unusual. Not only are raised undead usually treated as disposable, but there are going to be a lot of social taboos around an army of corpses following you around. It's all very well to say that you're going to keep an army of zombies, but what happens when the townsfolk find out about it?

Once he does raise them, how do you stat them?

Use the templates on page 152 of GURPS Magic.

The last encounter they killed a giant spider. Could he raise that and what would it stat out to?

Combine the spider's racial template with the undead racial template.

The spell says skills as in life, but that can be crazy powerful if you raise some boss.

The spell says the zombie doesn't get to keep any of its mental traits or IQ-based skills from when it was alive. It does get to keep its physical advantages and DX-based skills.

Yes, you can get some powerful zombies with this spell. It's a Regular spell, which means you have to multiply its energy cost by 1+SM, so large boss-monsters will cost a lot.

[DarbyMcD]

(Edit" forgot to respond to mslangsdorf)

Oh, sorry I didn't specify but we are not playing DFRPG, it is GURPS verison of Abomination Vaults, a Pathfinder path, so the characters are now at 75 points more or less. So yes, a ST20 zombie spider is unbalancing.

What you said about temporary not costing points makes sense, the problem is they are not temporary, they last until he releases them (when they want to return to town) or when they are killed. So every battle ends up being a chance for him to grow the horde, time permiting. And when they kill a boss monster, if their dex skills are based on their living skills, they can be fairly tough.

So far you are right that he and I have talked about it and he is keeping it to just 2. But I was wondering if there was a mechanical way of limiting it. 8 points for casting is not too bad if they have a place to rest a bit, which is not too uncommon after a battle.

[DarbyMcD]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

Yes, you can get some powerful zombies with this spell. It's a Regular spell, which means you have to multiply its energy cost by 1+SM, so large boss-monsters will cost a lot.

That is very helpful. At least he will not be able to raise the large ones... yet

thanks

[DarbyMcD]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

The spell says the zombie doesn't get to keep any of its mental traits or IQ-based skills from when it was alive. It does get to keep its physical advantages and DX-based skills.
[/I]

So if they down a semi-tough boss, lets say a hobgoblin with Broadsword-15, the zombie will have that skill? It seems a bit high for a zombie. Or acrobatics? The spell says "based on" not "equal to" so I am not sure what that maps to. I have just been using the Magic template so far, and the player is ok with it for now, but I can hear the wheels turning in his head about the possibilities and a group of 4 zombie swashbucklers does my head in.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by DarbyMcD

So if they down a semi-tough boss, lets say a hobgoblin with Broadsword-15, the zombie will have that skill? It seems a bit high for a zombie.

The Zombie spell doesn't create a shambling "braaaaiiiiinnnnnssss!" kind of zombie. Look at the undead templates on page 152 of GURPS Magic. A fresh zombie does not have any DX, Basic Speed, or Basic Move penalties. It's not slow. A hobgoblin zombie with Broadsword-15 is perfectly reasonable.

If you want the Zombie spell to produce slow, shambling zombies, you have to create new undead templates that reflect this.

Or acrobatics?

Yes, if the original being had Acrobatics skill, so will the zombie.

The spell says "based on" not "equal to" so I am not sure what that maps to.

"Based on" means exactly that: the attribute the skill is based on. Broadsword is based on DX, so the zombie keeps that skill. Tactics is based on IQ, so a zombie doesn't get to keep the original being's Tactics skill.

I have just been using the Magic template so far, and the player is ok with it for now, but I can hear the wheels turning in his head about the possibilities and a group of 4 zombie swashbucklers does my head in.

Then it sounds like you're imagining slow-moving zombies, and this is where the disconnect comes in, because the zombies produced by the Zombie spell aren't the slow-moving kind. You need to create new undead templates to match your mental image (or abandon your mental image).

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

... like Wealth gives your character an income, credit, etc. without spending play time finding and working a job.

Wealth doesn't do those things.