Female Avatars in Bio-Tech 4e vs. Transhuman Space: Bioroid Bazaar

[TGLS]

With all this discussion I'm honestly not sure ESD should qualify as a trait like this. I mean, it either makes you more attractive, or it goes too far and doesn't. It could make you more distinctive, unless obviously you live in a society where it's really common.

[Varyon]

The fact the trait specifies it's about "primary male or secondary female sexual attributes" (BT170, emphasis added) makes it clear exactly what it's enhancing. As noted, this doesn't really make sense for men, as unless you're talking about something comically large (in which case it's probably going to penalize Sex Appeal, on account of making the character mechanically incompatible with most potential partners), it's only going to be apparent if you're wearing fairly-revealing clothing (Deathworlders got a lot of comedic mileage out of their larger-than-life-in-all-ways HEAT operators tending to run around wearing nothing more than silkies/ranger shorts), but that's going to be inappropriate in a lot of situations.

So, were I to use ESD, it would be as something that primarily modifies secondary sexual characteristics. A more masculine or more feminine face, more visibly-defined (but not necessarily more functionally-useful) muscles or larger breasts and wider hips, reduced fat reserves (overall for men, for women there would be a few notable exceptions), etc. That's probably a lot more work than the simple surgery for it in BT, however - I'd instead treat that (which is basically just implants or similar) as a justification for increased overall Appearance and possibly something like the Classic Features Perk (although if it's readily apparent you've "had work done," it's probably a Feature, as you'll have plenty of people turned off by the unnatural aspects of your new appearance). That's for women; what's in a man's pants is relevant infrequently enough that it would probably just be a Feature.

[joppeknol]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

Those men are all just attractive. It covers both face and body. It has nothing inherently to do with having more pronounced sexual dimorphism. I also think on the flip side you're being far too narrow on assessing how many women might legitimately qualify for ESD. "Exaggerated secondary female sexual attributes", to the point where it enhances sex appeal and makes one stand out in a crowd, isn't especially rare. It's not common, certainly, or else it wouldn't be distinctive. But it's not limited to a small subset of (unrealistic or surgically enhanced) people.

If you consider being more muscular as a secondary male sexual attribute, they might qualify. I agree that I deviate from the original definition of ESD, which is imho silly for men. I side with Varyon's idea on how to use esd.

I might be too narrow for the women's esd, but I guess the definition of 'extreme' is extremely subjective

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by joppeknol

If you consider being more muscular as a secondary male sexual attribute, they might qualify. I agree that I deviate from the original definition of ESD, which is imho silly for men. I side with Varyon's idea on how to use esd.

I might be too narrow for the women's esd, but I guess the definition of 'extreme' is extremely subjective

To be honest, my solution would be that it's just only really valid for women. Or nonhumanoids with their own standards, I guess.

[mburr0003]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

None, because he can wear pants.

I see an awful lot of people in this thread are not "Gray Sweatpants Season" aficionados.

Regardless, use whatever features you, (as GM) regard as "peak male form" then exaggerate them.

So if it's women dolling up like Kim Kardashian and men like Arnold Schwarzenegger's Conan, or whatever fits your setting, great.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by mburr0003

Regardless, use whatever features you, (as GM) regard as "peak male form" then exaggerate them.

So if it's women dolling up like Kim Kardashian and men like Arnold Schwarzenegger's Conan, or whatever fits your setting, great.

I was responding to the question about what traits would apply if it was only primary sexual characteristics.

[mburr0003]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I was responding to the question about what traits would apply if it was only primary sexual characteristics.

I figured. Which is why I said "Gray Sweatpants Season".

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by mburr0003

I figured. Which is why I said "Gray Sweatpants Season".

Well it's probably not going to add Sex Appeal, because many people who have sex with men aren't into that. It's not going to be an Unusual Feature, because except for wearing something tight, you won't see it.