Female Avatars in Bio-Tech 4e vs. Transhuman Space: Bioroid Bazaar

[TGLS]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Would baldness count?

With all due respect to bald people I don't think they get pluses to Sex Appeal unless the target has a quirk.

[Tyneras]

ESD is primarily about shape, proportion and visual texture for both sexes (in humans, at least). In the real world it overlaps quite a bit with appearance, but if you are looking for male examples look at people like Fabio in their prime, boy bands, shirtless firefighter calendars, etc.

Basically ESD works even if there's nothing at all in your pants. ESD is more about convincing the lizard brain that you are extra special mating material, not necessarily delivering on that.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

ESD is primarily about shape, proportion and visual texture for both sexes (in humans, at least). In the real world it overlaps quite a bit with appearance, but if you are looking for male examples look at people like Fabio in their prime, boy bands, shirtless firefighter calendars, etc.

Basically ESD works even if there's nothing at all in your pants. ESD is more about convincing the lizard brain that you are extra special mating material, not necessarily delivering on that.

There are two problems with that:

The broader one is that attractiveness is not that strongly coupled to sexual dimorphism, and the quirk is very specific about being about sexual dimorphism.

The more specific one is the textual bit about male ESD being displayed in 'primary sexual characteristics'. Look up what that one means - it's exactly what people have been obliquely saying WRT pants.

[Tyneras]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

There are two problems with that:

The broader one is that attractiveness is not that strongly coupled to sexual dimorphism, and the quirk is very specific about being about sexual dimorphism.

The more specific one is the textual bit about male ESD being displayed in 'primary sexual characteristics'. Look up what that one means - it's exactly what people have been obliquely saying WRT pants.

It's one of those descriptions that's rather ridiculous, since it'd mean ESD for males would be completely negated by a waist high fence. That's a feature at best. So either the description for ESD is wrong, or ESD is not available/a feature for humanoid males.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

It's one of those descriptions that's rather ridiculous, since it'd mean ESD for males would be completely negated by a waist high fence. That's a feature at best. So either the description for ESD is wrong, or ESD is not available/a feature for humanoid males.

To be honest, I can't think of an example of what form of "exaggerated sexual dimorphism" wouldn't be trivially easy to conceal for human males.

[Tyneras]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

To be honest, I can't think of an example of what form of "exaggerated sexual dimorphism" wouldn't be trivially easy to conceal for human males.

Fair. For human males, at least, the description and the game mechanics don't line up in my eyes. Sex Appeal, the effected skill, works through clothes.

In my imagination, I go with images ranging from the ones given before to Johnny Bravo. You know, cartoonishly masculine types of characters in a mirror image of the cartoonishly famine Jessica Rabbit, both of whom I would give ESD without a second thought.

[WholesomeMadScientist]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

Fair. For human males, at least, the description and the game mechanics don't line up in my eyes. Sex Appeal, the effected skill, works through clothes.

In my imagination, I go with images ranging from the ones given before to Johnny Bravo. You know, cartoonishly masculine types of characters in a mirror image of the cartoonishly famine Jessica Rabbit, both of whom I would give ESD without a second thought.

Which is why I don’t have a “Male Avatar” type parahuman. I already have a Full Super-Soldier, the men would fill the same slot, the only real difference is that the “Male Avatar” is abundantly hairy, no thanks, I’ll leave “well developed” body hair & “extensive” facial hair to the Dwarves (as in Norse Myth/LoTR).

[joppeknol]

Originally Posted by WholesomeMadScientist

Which is why I don’t have a “Male Avatar” type parahuman. I already have a Full Super-Soldier, the men would fill the same slot, the only real difference is that the “Male Avatar” is abundantly hairy, no thanks, I’ll leave “well developed” body hair & “extensive” facial hair to the Dwarves (as in Norse Myth/LoTR).

I don't think a johnny Bravo would make a good super-soldier. I would say that the idea of esd is that it does not make a lot of sense outside of sexual attraction.

An extreme body-builder would be an example. Some people think they're good looking, but in practice, you don't see them compete at any sports-event.

I think the issue is that while I can see Jessica Rabbit or some female adult performers having ESD, I'm not sure about the male version. Maybe Hugh Hemsworth, Henry Cavill or Bruce Lee? I'm not sure if they would get a the same bonus as a woman with ESD.

[WholesomeMadScientist]

Originally Posted by joppeknol

I don't think a johnny Bravo would make a good super-soldier. I would say that the idea of esd is that it does not make a lot of sense outside of sexual attraction.

An extreme body-builder would be an example. Some people think they're good looking, but in practice, you don't see them compete at any sports-event.

I think the issue is that while I can see Jessica Rabbit or some female adult performers having ESD, I'm not sure about the male version. Maybe Hugh Hemsworth, Henry Cavill or Bruce Lee? I'm not sure if they would get a the same bonus as a woman with ESD.

I do not think Johnny Bravo would either, I was referring to the “blatantly muscular”.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by joppeknol

I don't think a johnny Bravo would make a good super-soldier. I would say that the idea of esd is that it does not make a lot of sense outside of sexual attraction.

An extreme body-builder would be an example. Some people think they're good looking, but in practice, you don't see them compete at any sports-event.

I think the issue is that while I can see Jessica Rabbit or some female adult performers having ESD, I'm not sure about the male version. Maybe Hugh Hemsworth, Henry Cavill or Bruce Lee? I'm not sure if they would get a the same bonus as a woman with ESD.

Those men are all just attractive. It covers both face and body. It has nothing inherently to do with having more pronounced sexual dimorphism. I also think on the flip side you're being far too narrow on assessing how many women might legitimately qualify for ESD. "Exaggerated secondary female sexual attributes", to the point where it enhances sex appeal and makes one stand out in a crowd, isn't especially rare. It's not common, certainly, or else it wouldn't be distinctive. But it's not limited to a small subset of (unrealistic or surgically enhanced) people.