[Path/Book Magic] Expanding on The Magic of Stories

[Prince Charon]

The Magic of Stories (Pyramid 3/13, pp4-14), by Kelly Pedersen, is a rather interesting concept that seems not to have been followed up on (or it has and I failed to find it). In brief, the idea expresses traditional fairy-tale magic as a form of Path/Book Magic that the characters have, which they may or may not be using consciously. The equivalent of Paths are called Archetypes, and as the name suggests, are organized by what sort of fairy-tale character you are. The article goes into detail about a few, like the Captive Princess, Dark Sorcerer, or Fortunate Son, and gives one-sentence summaries of a few more (e.g. the Good King or the Oracle) in a box on page 12. The equivalent of Books are called Tales, and include the various magical effects found in a particular fairy tale (e.g. the Tale of Sleeping Beauty would have Dream Shackles on its list, or the Tale of Star Wars (Original Trilogy) should grant some sort of telekinetic ritual, among other things). The article didn't go into a lot of detail about Tales.

Anyway, this thread is here to expand on this idea. For example, consider the Archetype of the Wonder-Smith (aka the Mystic Artisan, or the Magical Toymaker). His (or her) role in most such stories is to supply the hero with magic items, or with just one vital magic item. The Lady of the Lake fits this Archetype in some versions of the Arthurian Cycle. So does Geppetto in The Adventures of Pinocchio, albeit more loosely. Clearly, the Archetype of the Wonder-Smith would have Fetish and Embody on the list, and probably also Summon, but I'm not sure he'd have Bind. Some rituals from the Path of the Elements or Path of Gadgets are at least plausible, but I'm not sure of the best fit. What do you think?

[lugaid]

One of the most common ways for the Smith in "The Smith and the Devil" to escape his pact is to gain the power to bind the Devil, so it seems to me that Bind might be appropriate.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by lugaid

One of the most common ways for the Smith in "The Smith and the Devil" to escape his pact is to gain the power to bind the Devil, so it seems to me that Bind might be appropriate.

Good point.

OK, so Fetish, Embody, Summon, and Bind from Path of Spirits, Fix Glitch, Repair, and Read the Manual from Path of Gadgets, probably Endure Elements (at least for a Smith) and maybe Conjure Flame from Path of the Elements, and perhaps Measurement (pp164-165) from The Deeper Principia, Annotated? It might make sense to have Lenses for this Archetype, but maybe not.


If anyone was wondering why I specified the Star Wars OT above, it's the trilogy that is the most fairy tale like, and the trilogies are different enough in theme, time, characters, and so on to be separate Tales. Really, I'm not sure if the OT itself should be one Tale or a set of three connected Tales.

[oneofmanynameless]

For the fairy tale archetype of the wonder maker, as opposed to just some enchanter guy, the essential tools should also include some divinatory abilities that can give them insight into the story at foot and what type of special magic item will truly help them. These don't have to necessarily tell them what the story is or the plot is, it might literally just say what kind of device will be helpful.

Also this character concept does exist outside of fairy tales: Q from James Bond fills the same role, for example.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

For the fairy tale archetype of the wonder maker, as opposed to just some enchanter guy, the essential tools should also include some divinatory abilities that can give them insight into the story at foot and what type of special magic item will truly help them. These don't have to necessarily tell them what the story is or the plot is, it might literally just say what kind of device will be helpful.

Good idea, thank you.

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

Also this character concept does exist outside of fairy tales: Q from James Bond fills the same role, for example.

True.

Meant to reply sooner, but now I have some ideas about the ritual. It would needs to be a new one, since the closest match is Vision of Luck, and it's not that close, as this ritual asks a narrower question and gives a more precise answer. Here's what I have so far:

You'll Need This...
Effect Shaping: Archetype of the Wonder-Smith-4?; 10 minutes.
Energy Accumulating: 7 points?

The Wonder-Smith knows what you will need on your journey, often before you know to ask. <More description needed>

Suggestions?

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Meant to reply sooner, but now I have some ideas about the ritual. It would needs to be a new one, since the closest match is Vision of Luck, and it's not that close, as this ritual asks a narrower question and gives a more precise answer. Here's what I have so far:

You'll Need This...
Effect Shaping: Archetype of the Wonder-Smith-4?; 10 minutes.
Energy Accumulating: 7 points?

The Wonder-Smith knows what you will need on your journey, often before you know to ask. <More description needed>

Suggestions?

It's a bit of a stretch, I might treat it as a version of the Gizmo advantage- the flavor is different, but both have the game effect of being able to produce exactly what you need for a single scene even if you had no way of knowing you would need it.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

It's a bit of a stretch, I might treat it as a version of the Gizmo advantage- the flavor is different, but both have the game effect of being able to produce exactly what you need for a single scene even if you had no way of knowing you would need it.

If you mean 'turn the Gizmos advantage into a ritual,' yes, that could be effectively similar to what I've already done, but doesn't help me finish it; if you mean 'use the Gizmos advantage instead of a ritual,' that goes against both the concept of the thread and IIRC the original article. If I could not come up with a ritual, or could only come up with something that would be meaningfully worse than the advantage either thematically or practically, that would be one thing, but that's not an issue, here.

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

If you mean 'turn the Gizmos advantage into a ritual,' yes, that could be effectively similar to what I've already done, but doesn't help me finish it; if you mean 'use the Gizmos advantage instead of a ritual,' that goes against both the concept of the thread and IIRC the original article. If I could not come up with a ritual, or could only come up with something that would be meaningfully worse than the advantage either thematically or practically, that would be one thing, but that's not an issue, here.

I mean, treat the effect of the ritual as "grants one use of gizmo". I'm afraid I don't have enough experience with Path/Book magic to know how to convert this into a casting cost, but I thought putting the effect into GURPS mechanical terms might be helpful for someone who does have such knowledge.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

I mean, treat the effect of the ritual as "grants one use of gizmo". I'm afraid I don't have enough experience with Path/Book magic to know how to convert this into a casting cost, but I thought putting the effect into GURPS mechanical terms might be helpful for someone who does have such knowledge.

In this context, it's useful for explaining the concept (and thank you for trying, BTW), not for getting the numbers, because I'm not using RPM. That one might allow it, but has IIRC a much higher energy cost most of the time (though 'one use of Gizmos' may be one of the exceptions), and is usually counterintuitive for me.

[Anaraxes]

In several places in the rules, 25 EP is equated to 1 CP. (E.g., Points For Energy in Impulse Buys.) One Use Only is 1/5th cost (not -80%), so 5 EP = 1 CP of single-use Advantage. Gizmo is 5 CP, so putting all those together suggests 25 EP for a ritual that grants a single use of Gizmo.

That's a little high compared to the examples for Energy Accumulating spells -- a factor of two -- but not completely beyond the pale. If it's meant to be used by fairy-tale NPCs as plot points, then the exact cost really doesn't matter.

Other caveats: the 25:1 ratio is a guideline that's worked in practice in several places, not actually a rule or fundamental system design principle. And swapping out magic systems are one area where those sorts of rules of thumb might not port well, so scrutiny is wise. But even if you tweak the ratio, the basic concept might give you a way to price Advantages-as-rituals in general, while remaining at least somewhat consistent with other rules.