Just how smart are those Neo-Coons

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by mr beer

I keep reading this as pertaining to Racial Template design for Neo-Cons.

Yes. They are mentally limited. But it doesn't prevent some of them to be exceptional. Exactly as humans are mentally average. But it doesn't prevent some individuals to be outstandingly bright.

[Celti]

Originally Posted by PTTG

The hard part is the computer use, definitely. I think the only reasonable explanation is that the neo-raccoons were intentionally trained in computer use beforehand. Then they would merely have to guess, or find written down, the password for the database or whatever it was they manipulated. Or maybe the company had truly abysmal cybersecurity.

If they weren't trained in computer use beforehand, how did they even know who they were going to email? Either they had computer access before, to search and plot and set things up, or else somebody contacted them with a step-by-step of "Okay, once you escape your cell: email this address, then run `format C:` and make your way to the rooftop."

If you look at the plan that way, a pair with intelligence equivalent to a human five-year-old could easily fake a stomachache, glom the tangler off the guard's belt and shoot him with it, then follow instructions they were given and sneak the rest of the way out of there.

[simply Nathan]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

You have met 5 year olds capable of tricking and incapacitating adults followed by computer hacking to erase their presence along with contacting outsiders?

Contacting outsiders via use of a computer? Heck yes.

The incapacitation part isn't based on IQ, and these raccoons had the advantage of surprise, size, and the advantage of weaponry as soon as they sprung their ambush.

[Icelander]

One of my players has a daughter. She often watches her father use Skype to call his friends and game.

When said Munchkin was 18 months old, I got a Skype call. Skype said it was from her father, but as it turned out, it was from a tiny tyke without any assistance. Who greeted me with name and much monkey-like celebration.

I'd consider the use of digital communications to contact someone reality tested for humans under the age of 2. As for pretending to be sick, that's certainly within the range of capabilities for a human child.

As for the rest, remember, these aren't human children. That's just our way of trying to frame their intelligence.

Neo-coons are racoons that are orders of magnitude smarter than others of their species. Given that real racoons manage to be cunning little beasts on occasion, it should be no surprise that hyper-smart racoons can be even more cunning.

Might have to pin a tail on them and call 'em a weasel.

[TGLS]

Well, to be fair the vignette said that they were Doolittle virus enhanced Neo-Coons. What does it mean? I don't know, but probably increased intelligence. Why the cage is big enough to fit the guard, or how they managed to hit the guard at an effective at around a skill of 6 (-4 from default, -2 due to lack of min ST) is beyond me. Possibly the guard was bribed.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by TGLS

Well, to be fair the vignette said that they were Doolittle virus enhanced Neo-Coons. What does it mean? I don't know, but probably increased intelligence. Why the cage is big enough to fit the guard, or how they managed to hit the guard at an effective at around a skill of 6 (-4 from default, -2 due to lack of min ST) is beyond me. Possibly the guard was bribed.

Using a one-handed weapon in both hands reduces MinST. Using a ranged weapon at melee range allows both All-Out Attack and Telegraphic Attack.

[cdru]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Using a one-handed weapon in both hands reduces MinST. Using a ranged weapon at melee range allows both All-Out Attack and Telegraphic Attack.

So, the Neo-Coon with gun could have a decent chance of hitting, i guess. Especially if they aimed before. However, tanglers are two-handed weapons, which means that there's still -2 penalty for not being strong enough

[MechaMage]

Originally Posted by cdru

So, the Neo-Coon with gun could have a decent chance of hitting, i guess. Especially if they aimed before. However, tanglers are two-handed weapons, which means that there's still -2 penalty for not being strong enough

But they can probably claim somewhere to the order of +8 if they're at point blank range. Remember, if this is a true ambush, the guard is certainly partially or totally surprised. Ordinary security guards definitely lack Combat Reflexes, as their training is mostly going to be concerned with procedure rather than reacting to small mammal attacks. I don't think they exactly merit a fright check, but I might personally penalise guard's IQ roll for surprise a little to represent the sheer absurdity of being ambushed by hyper-intelligent animals.

As for MinST, they might both be handling it, which would probably let them add BLs and recalculate ST as usual, maybe giving them a better hope. Or maybe one of them grappled the guard. But there is the concern of SM modifiers too: -3 for trying to use an SM 0 appropriate weapon. The neo-coons could possibly have either Guns skill (Guns 12 would probably end up rolling about a 14 to hit after modifiers, at first glance) or at least some sort of perk or trait to represent them having grown accustomed to using SM 0 gear thanks to living in an SM0 society? Like a wildcard version of Bigger Weapons (SM) to let them ignore a level or two of size difference for gear they're familiar with, perhaps.

[spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

You have met 5 year olds capable of tricking and incapacitating adults followed by computer hacking to erase their presence along with contacting outsiders?

It's a prison guard. IQ-4 template, unless the evil overlord had a neo-coon or smarter character review their SOP, plans, hiring practices, etc.

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by MechaMage

But they can probably claim somewhere to the order of +8 if they're at point blank range. Remember, if this is a true ambush, the guard is certainly partially or totally surprised. Ordinary security guards definitely lack Combat Reflexes, as their training is mostly going to be concerned with procedure rather than reacting to small mammal attacks. I don't think they exactly merit a fright check, but I might personally penalise guard's IQ roll for surprise a little to represent the sheer absurdity of being ambushed by hyper-intelligent animals.

As for MinST, they might both be handling it, which would probably let them add BLs and recalculate ST as usual, maybe giving them a better hope. Or maybe one of them grappled the guard. But there is the concern of SM modifiers too: -3 for trying to use an SM 0 appropriate weapon. The neo-coons could possibly have either Guns skill (Guns 12 would probably end up rolling about a 14 to hit after modifiers, at first glance) or at least some sort of perk or trait to represent them having grown accustomed to using SM 0 gear thanks to living in an SM0 society? Like a wildcard version of Bigger Weapons (SM) to let them ignore a level or two of size difference for gear they're familiar with, perhaps.

That particular vignette gave me an idea for a character I wanted to play in a THS campaign. A third-generation "Nova-coon" that was even smarter, and a bit larger. He had been brought up in an enclave outside of Vancouver, where his elders had established a community after escaping from a bio-tech research firm outside of Fort Collins, Colorado.

Nova-Coon Template

Attribute Modifiers
ST -5 [-50]; DX +2 [40]; IQ unmodified [0]; HT+1 [10] Total: 0

Secondary Characteristic Modifiers
SM -2; Per +2 [10]; Will +1 [5] Total: +15

Advantages
Claws (Sharp Claws) [5]; DR 1 [5]; Night Vision 1 [1];
Super Climbing 1 [3]; Teeth (Sharp Teeth) [1]
Attractive Appearance (Cute and Fuzzy, +1) [4] Total: +19

Perks
Fur [1] Total: + 1

Disadvantages
Disturbing Voice (Squeaky/Chittery) [-10];
Curious (12) [-5]; Horizontal [-10];
Sleepy (1/2 the time) [-8];
Social Stigma (Valuable Property) [-10]
or Second-Class Citizens (-5) Total: -43 (or -38)

I thought that would make for a cool mechanic character, with all sorts of useful tech skills. His small size and superb DX would offer some nice advantages, as well. The disads were obvious, I thought, and I added in that he wanted to earn enough money to buy his community big, strong shells of some sort so they'd feel safer.

I actually adapted him for a Shadow Run one-shot that G&AInc thought about running, but he wasn't keen on the idea, so the character has sat on my hard drive, for a long time.

As for the vignette, itself, I didn't have any problems with it. One of the neo-coons jumps on the face of the security guard, and then hangs on with teeth and claws long enough for the second, sitting on a table next to the door, to reach out and grab the tangler. Take a second to aim, and then glom the guard and scamper.