[Bio-Tech] Template for Female Space Colonists

[GodBeastX]

Something about the OP template is suspicious, and I can't put my finger on what.

My input is I don't see much aid here in colonizing. This looks more like a template someone would stick on women to objectify them a bit. Maybe that's what the engineer in the setting had in mind and it could be a plot hook =)

[Frost]

Originally Posted by Angle

If you really want the colony to work the way you outlined, you could just have the colonists be from some sect that doesn't like the idea of Exowombs. Fundamentalist mormons, perhaps?

This is what I mean about exowombs being a distraction.

Even if you leave them out of the equation the basic idea is crazy. If a colony is viable anyway it doesn't need most of these features and it certainly doesn't need the downsides.

The only way to justify this at all is ideology, and it takes a fairly serious stretch to visualise an ideology that would require this kind of set up despite its weaknesses. Even most fundamentalist communities would be better served by more conventional population management measures possibly employed in conjunction with an Avatar* style parahuman design (bio 69) (assuming that all that engineering is acceptable in the first place).

*Yes I know that Avatar are Tl 10, but several of the critical features are Tl 9.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Angle

If you really want the colony to work the way you outlined, you could just have the colonists be from some sect that doesn't like the idea of Exowombs. Fundamentalist mormons, perhaps?

Or believers in some paranoia ala anti-vaxxers now. Or new age stuff about babies needing physical contact even in the womb via a real mother.

Or semi-legitimate concerns about exowombs' too perfect environment leading to immune/psychological "weaknesses" like modern Western sterile childhoods increasing risks of autoimmune disorders.

[scc]

OK, thanks for the extra input, I'm trying to figure out the under what sort of circumstances something like this could work, what conditions or whatever I've missed.

I'll try and address concerns people have.

Yes this is aimed at population growth above all else, my view is that lift capacity to new colonies will be limited, at least for early ones (Note that the first wave of colonies will also have a very limited pool of potential colonists to draw upon). 100,000 people, half of them male, is probably the start population or there abouts. That really isn't enough population to support the tool-chain that leads to exo-wombs.

There likely will be some immigration after that first wave, buy carried on tramp freighters. And the colony WON'T be equal in TL to what the settlers came from but the aim is for it too be some day. The upfront costs would be too high anyway. But they will have the tools to build the tools and hopefully the knoweldge to do so will be preserved.

As for the government or a funding corporation MAKING people use exo-wombs? This places the cost on the named entity, not the end user.

@GodBeastX, your right about it not offering any advantage to colonizing (Farming, mining, etc) but what does provide that? And they would be on a generic colonist template, not a sex specific one

[acrosome]

Originally Posted by scc

Attractive (45/B21)[4] TL9
Altered Sex Ratio (59) [0] TL9*
Extended Fertility (59) [0] TL9
Increased Fecundity (59) [0] TL9
Light Menses (58) [0] TL9
Sexual Orientation (Bi-Sexual)(59) [0] TL9


Easy Childbirth (58) [0] TL10
Modified Genetic Inheritance (Does not pass Traits on to male children)(59) [0] TL10

Among other issues, that wouldn't be Homo sapiens. It'd be some other species, and incapable of interbreeding with H.sapiens. Of course, that may be OK in the setting.

But, ew, that's kinda creepy. More an adolescent male fantasy than anything practical for fast colony growth. That said, I potentially disagree about exowombs being a "better" option. There is some value to a robust system, and using hominins as incubators has a proven track record. Especially if, for instance, the colony has to operate at a lower TL for a while. And there is the old SF trope of low-TL worlds where horses are more useful than cars, because the horses can be maintained at low-TL and, of course, make more horses. I suspect that childrearing problems in a rapidly growing colony mostly have social solutions, not genetic ones. A communal child-rearing model might develop, with subsidized daycares starting at only a few months of age to free mom for work.

[Angle]

It depends on the tech - Tl 7-8 tech requires a lot of infrastructure to make, but what about TL 9-10? I bet it actuall requires less overrall infrastructure, becuase of things like fabricators, robofacs, and wet nanofabrication systems. You wouldn't be able to makes stuf as fast as with dedicated assembly lines, but you wouldn't need to. Thus, making and reparing exo-wombs would be pretty easy. And of course, nothing says you can't keep the hominid system around as a fall back.

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by scc

OK, thanks for the extra input, I'm trying to figure out the under what sort of circumstances something like this could work, what conditions or whatever I've missed.

I'll try and address concerns people have.

Yes this is aimed at population growth above all else, my view is that lift capacity to new colonies will be limited, at least for early ones (Note that the first wave of colonies will also have a very limited pool of potential colonists to draw upon). 100,000 people, half of them male, is probably the start population or there abouts. That really isn't enough population to support the tool-chain that leads to exo-wombs.

There likely will be some immigration after that first wave, buy carried on tramp freighters. And the colony WON'T be equal in TL to what the settlers came from but the aim is for it too be some day. The upfront costs would be too high anyway. But they will have the tools to build the tools and hopefully the knoweldge to do so will be preserved.

As for the government or a funding corporation MAKING people use exo-wombs? This places the cost on the named entity, not the end user.

@GodBeastX, your right about it not offering any advantage to colonizing (Farming, mining, etc) but what does provide that? And they would be on a generic colonist template, not a sex specific one

Is anyone else thinking of Mudd's Women?

OK, short term I have to agree this sounds like something Viole Falushe would cook up for his personal colony. Long term you're looking at a matriarchy. Which might make an interesting world background, but doesn't seem to be what you're trying for. And if this is supposed to be modifications for fertility in low tech conditions, boosted HT, resistance to disease and something to make childbirth easier and reduce the rate of miscarriages would be more practical than Attractive & Bisexual. Genetic modifications customized by planet would also make sense.



On top of that, if you want to maintain as much as TL 5-6, if you want to have a society that's largely literate, you'll still need a lot of investment in time to raise the children and that, not basic fertility, will be your real bottleneck. If you have access to basic TL 7+ medicine, you don't need that many pregnancies for a high rate of population anyway. And why do you need to grow the population so fast? Is this some kind of escape from a doomed Earth scenario?

And who raised the first generation of female genetically modified colonists anyway? I'm trying to think of how that project got funded. Or were the original colonists unmodified but accompanied by genetically modified sperm and ova which were implanted for the first generation?

[scc]

@acrosome, are you just talking about the Altered Sex Raito under Bio-Tech rules, that change in general or something else?

If polygamy develops from the described gender in-balance free child care might be a product of the household, one of the mothers can mind the children while the others are available for work, a lot better system then was used traditionally.

@Angle, what makes you think that? Those machines still need raw materials, still need maintenance, in fact the whole set up is likely to require more spare parts due to more machines, and that ignores the theory that a certain population is required to support certain industries/products.

@Infornific, these aren't all the changes, but changes like boosted HT would be made to both sexes (If needed/desired), as for Attractive & Bisexual, Attractive is supposed to be a side effect of morphological changes to support increased fertillity (Wider hips for easier childbirth, larger breasts to support breast feeding multiple children) while Bisexual is something thrown to reduce stress.

If children are a larger portion of the population the cost of educating them would be higher, thanks for pointing that out, but if TL is lower they don't need as much education.

The need for children is me figuring that populations above certain sizes are required for higher TL's, and before that's achieved there's no interstellar trade.

A very good question that, maybe some sort of cut rate program on basic genetic upgrades for parents who are prepared to commit their daughters, or some sort of gene surgery after selection

[Angle]

Originally Posted by scc

@Angle, what makes you think that? Those machines still need raw materials, still need maintenance, in fact the whole set up is likely to require more spare parts due to more machines, and that ignores the theory that a certain population is required to support certain industries/products.

That's what people are for. The extra workforce freed up by not needing to be pregnant all the time should be more than sufficient to cover the requirements.

[roguebfl]

You want increase HT level to remain healthy in less the ideal planetary condition (epcially radiation)

TL9 colonisation is going to be intra-solar system location, not extra-solar system "New Earth"s