[4e] Custom Magic for a Custom Setting

[Rabek]

Many years ago, I wanted to create my own RPG for lack of funds and friends to play an already established one. Now, about a decade later, I've decided that I'm terrible at rules and GURPS might be able to handle the crunch while I write out the fluff.

I'm a bit stuck with the magic system, which is my favorite part of any setting. I love metaphysics.

I understand Magic and Thaumatology provide a lot of options, but honestly I'm a bit lost with how many they are, and some just seem impractical. A prime example is how incredible expensive Realms magic is in either FP or skill penalties.

As per the above, I don't trust myself (or other people, generally) with house rules, so I figured I'd post what I've worked out so far and hope people have suggestions to improve it.

Now, there are two basic divisions of magic in this system that lead to many more permutations:

Natural (for lack of a better word) magic, and Spirit magic.

Natural magic has always existed and involves manipulating various dualistic energies (life/death, heaven/earth, heat/cold) via willpower to produce effects. Energies cannot be changed outside their dualisms (life can become death, but it cannot become heat, etc). Most things contain a mix, and most magic comes from moving the energies from one thing to another. I've modeled this by using aspected Mana ratings, where a bonfire will have High Heat mana that allows for easy fire magic and the like.

Interacting with the environment is a big goal of this system. If you want to cast a lot of a certain type of magic, it's worth finding a place or creating a place that causes the type of 'mana' you need.

I like GURPS's FP expenditure system for this, since it is physically tiring to move the energies around. I've also been tentatively using the Realms magic from Thaumatology for this, since freeform magic is ideal and Realms seems to fit the dualistic energies best.

Anything that aids in focus/belief allows for a variant on Natural Magic. The main ones being Symbol Magic (which I'm using from Thaumatology presently) and ritual/ceremonial magic (which I'm having trouble finding rules I like for; it should just provide bonuses even with a single mage, rather than being required). Symbol magic is also the only way to enchant with Natural Magic, and it's pretty ubiquitous in the setting. Farmers might know a few symbols to help grow crops. Hunters might know a few divination symbols to find animals.

The biggest problem I'm having with Realm Magic is the ridiculous FP costs and skill penalties. Also, I'd like Life/Death magic to cost HP without making it entirely undesirable. I'm not sure if there is an advantage/power that might model this better.

The second I'm really lost on, and I've posted threads related to it in the past:

Spirit Magic.

It's more recent in-setting, and spirits are the creation of the belief of people in local areas (though most people don't realize it's belief-based).

Sanctity kind of works for this, since I want geographic regions to have their own gods/spirits based on the people living there. However, I want anyone to be able to pray to spirits/gods for help. So far, I'm liking spirit-assisted magic, but it's not perfect. You should get a bonus for being built for it, but you should not need to be. There should be a bonus for knowing the spirits of an area, but I don't want to require it since you should be able to find a minor spirit out in the middle of a forest (since your character likely believes there are spirits everywhere, so worst-case scenario you are creating a minor spirit to petition).

A variant of this would be a personal guardian spirit that one prays to exclusively, which I figure might be best represented as an ally or even patron.

Some form of fetish-making without having to use the spell would also be nice, as I'm trying to avoid discrete 'spells', as per the freeform magic above.

Does anyone have any suggestions or comments on what I have so far? Is this just too ambitious for GURPS? I'd like to be able to model as much of this as possible using as few systems as possible. There's already more than enough rules without adding a dozen more just for magic, but I do want to be true to the fictional setting I've created.

[johndallman]

A few examples of the kinds of effects you want to get from Spirit magic would help.

Of the prebuilt systems in Thaumatology, Path/Book magic was originally constructed for Voodoo, and has a useful set of flexible effects. If spirits of various sizes and types could give modifiers to time and skill, it might suit.

You might also want to look at Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic, which is almost as universal as Realm magic, but has a power gathering over time mechanic that might suit.

[Rabek]

Originally Posted by johndallman

A few examples of the kinds of effects you want to get from Spirit magic would help.

Of the prebuilt systems in Thaumatology, Path/Book magic was originally constructed for Voodoo, and has a useful set of flexible effects. If spirits of various sizes and types could give modifiers to time and skill, it might suit.

You might also want to look at Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic, which is almost as universal as Realm magic, but has a power gathering over time mechanic that might suit.

I haven't looked enough into Path/Book and RPM to comment on those directly at this point. My initial concern is I don't want to require rituals, but rather allow them for improved spellcasting. I'll comment more when I can look into these options further, and I greatly appreciate the rapid response and the suggestions.

As for spirit magic, I suppose it should work in many ways similar to the main magic system. Either brief prayers with low chance of success for the uninitiated, or a more elaborate ritual (in the more religious or even primitive totemism sense) involving negotiation with a spirit for the initiated that can produce effects as powerful as Natural Magic, but with more flexibility. i.e. the same skills can summon a forest spirit or a fire spirit or a hearth spirit, provided you can locate/create one. The main limiters on spirit magic should be the potency of the spirit (via either the practitioner's belief/dedication to it or the general popularity of the spirit) rather than the skill/FP of the caster as in Natural Magic. Skill merely helps in finding/creating such a spirit, or finding an appropriate offering (whether material or a favor of some sort) to appease it.

Basically, the hope is for spirit magic to feel somewhat shamanistic and based more on animism than the more hermetic Natural Magic.

[ericthered]

A couple of questions:

Are practitioners of natural magic specialized? is each elemental pair learned separately, is a basic theory learned and then you have various levels of skill with the pairs, or do you just learn magic and you are equally good (or bad) at making fireballs, healing the sick, and flying?

When you say you want to avoid rituals, do you mean specific spells, spells that take a long time, or simple spells that require a very specific set up?

Will the symbols of the farmers growing crops be specific effects? as in set spells? what distinguishes the simple crop-enhancing farmer from the full-time enchanter from the effect wrecking mage?

What is the difference between a novice and a master? the amount of control? the amount of raw power? the ability to wring water magic from a stone? what is easy for a novice to do? a small effect with decent control, or a large effect with poor control?

How vauge are the effects behind life/death? can I animate a corpse? a tree? kill an enemy from afar? suck away a foe's life energy? kill a goat and distribute its energy to the wheat to make them grow? Sustain life without food? turn the warrior into a super-strong behemoth for a short time? cause infertility? create a plauge? heal a broken arm? raise the dead?

I would advise looking at powers, particularly the 'control' advantage. This won't work for life and death, but may for some of the others. Book/Path magic is NOT what you want. It IS what you want to look at for the ritual bonuses.

[Rabek]

Originally Posted by ericthered

A couple of questions:

Are practitioners of natural magic specialized? is each elemental pair learned separately, is a basic theory learned and then you have various levels of skill with the pairs, or do you just learn magic and you are equally good (or bad) at making fireballs, healing the sick, and flying?

Current plan is to have each pair be a separate specialty, though they aren't mutually exclusive beyond the time it takes to learn them. I'd be happy with each pair being their own skill, or each pair being a specialty of some fundamentals skill. The basic idea of manipulating energy, from the fluff side, is probably the same between all three, but beyond that there isn't much knowledge to take between different specialties. It's kind of like linguistics, I suppose. Learning a second language makes learning further languages easier, but there's still a pretty big gap between learning, say, English and Mandarin Chinese.

When you say you want to avoid rituals, do you mean specific spells, spells that take a long time, or simple spells that require a very specific set up?

Rituals exist as an aid to help mages focus better and clear their mind of distractions. It shouldn't be necessary as a rule, but it may be required for bigger effects and for less skilled mages. I basically want rituals to be a crutch, more or less, that's optional. What I want to avoid entirely is pre-defined spells where you go "I cast fireball", which is basically what basic set utilizes.

Will the symbols of the farmers growing crops be specific effects? as in set spells? what distinguishes the simple crop-enhancing farmer from the full-time enchanter from the effect wrecking mage?

Symbols are also a form of crutch, albeit a more effective one. To use the symbol magic in Thaumatology as an example, a farmer might know 'enhance' and 'plant' to strengthen the wooden part of tools and make their crops hardier, but they wouldn't know much more than that simply because the time and effort to learn symbols takes away from farming. A full-time enchanter may know a dozen or so more common symbols, as well as crafting skills to etch them into tools, armor, weapons, charms, and the like. Full-fledged mages generally have more freedom and can cast more quickly due to not having to draw complex sigils, but the effects are generally weaker (due to being less focused) without rituals. They also can't enchant without knowing symbol magic, as the symbols provide a sort of grounding for the energies and willworking involved.

What is the difference between a novice and a master? the amount of control? the amount of raw power? the ability to wring water magic from a stone? what is easy for a novice to do? a small effect with decent control, or a large effect with poor control?

Control defines it best. That control also has to do with the amount of energy they can wrangle and what they can wrangle it from. A novice might be able to create a fog from a lake or sense water energy, but a master could pull water energy from damp soil and plants and fill a waterskin. Neither can create or destroy energy, though. Only move and sense it with increasing amounts of control. Novices are probably better at large effects (in the sense of size) with poor control. Natural Magic should reward skill mostly, though I did find the skill penalties in Thaumatology to be a little ridiculous.

How vauge are the effects behind life/death? can I animate a corpse? a tree? kill an enemy from afar? suck away a foe's life energy? kill a goat and distribute its energy to the wheat to make them grow? Sustain life without food? turn the warrior into a super-strong behemoth for a short time? cause infertility? create a plauge? heal a broken arm? raise the dead?

This gets a little trickier! Especially since you cannot create/destroy energy in this system. I originally wanted it to be so that you could not harm without healing or heal without harming. Something that is dead stays dead, though you could bind a spirit into it to animate it. Something nearly dead could be healed by taking life from nearby plants, animals, and people. Sustaining life without food would be similar, but you could do it with less. Probably killing nearby foliage/insects in the process. Buffs and healing would work. Plagues would not, but debuffs/rotting flesh/damaging organs for various effects would. Life/Death magic is honestly one of the ones I've had the most trouble with, since it doesn't really work much like the other forms. I may have to ditch the idea and allow you to transfer death to life and vice-versa, but at a cost of some kind. I think that's a good plan in general. Converting between life and death or heat and cold or heaven and earth should be costly.

I would advise looking at powers, particularly the 'control' advantage. This won't work for life and death, but may for some of the others. Book/Path magic is NOT what you want. It IS what you want to look at for the ritual bonuses.

Thanks! I'll check this out.