Curious about why Acute Hearing 4 is the max

[BraselC5048]

Tactical Shooting gives the maximum level of Acute Hearing in a realistic campaign as +4. Which is fine with me.

I'm just curious as to why that is, and what acute hearing 4 would mean in real life, anyway. My own research turned up pretty much nothing that would help, as far as giving numbers is concerned. Anybody know where the numbers came from (or have numbers in general)?

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by BraselC5048

Tactical Shooting gives the maximum level of Acute Hearing in a realistic campaign as +4. Which is fine with me.

I'm just curious as to why that is, and what acute hearing 4 would mean in real life, anyway.?

I will be eagerly following this thread. I can see setting a max Hearing, such as 14 for realistic humans. But setting a +4 max to Acute Hearing doesn't set any realistic upper limit, since Perception can be as high as 20, according to the rules as written.

[sir_pudding]

I'm fairly sure that the assumption is that Perception includes the ability to process what your senses detect, but that the Acute senses are purely sensory acuity. The limits of human hearing are known and were compared to the hearing distance table in the Basic Set to determine how the range of human hearing acuity maps to bonuses on the table.

[Anthony]

Given that the average (young adult) can hear a 0 dB sound, and max human performance is roughly a -15 dB sound, if you're using the rules for hearing distance in Basic, max level of acute hearing is about 1.5 (max level of acute vision is 2, max level of night vision is 1, max level of acute smell is hard to identify), so I'd say the limit of 4 was made up.

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I'm fairly sure that the assumption is that Perception includes the ability to process what your senses detect, but that the Acute senses are purely sensory acuity. The limits of human hearing are known and were compared to the hearing distance table in the Basic Set to determine how the range of human hearing acuity maps to bonuses on the table.

Agreed, but I'm thinking they meant to set a realistic maximum for human hearing of 14. Since someone with IQ 13 and Acute Hearing +4 would have a Hearing 17, and I think we all agree that is too high.

[corwyn]

But what really chaffs my chaps is this:

Perception 10 + Acute Hearing 5 = 15 unrealistic and illegal
Perception 20 + Acute Hearing 4 = 24 "realistic"? and legal

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by corwyn

But what really chaffs my chaps is this:

Perception 10 + Acute Hearing 5 = 15 unrealistic and illegal
Perception 20 + Acute Hearing 4 = 24 "realistic"? and legal

I think if you are using the rules in Tactical Shooting and allowing Per 20, you are probably doing something wrong. I can tell you that none of the play-testing I did used attributes above 14.

[BraselC5048]

On the "can you possibly hear it" front, considering High Tech's hearing table treats the listed range as "no modifier," I'd say that if the total hearing penalties after the acute hearing bonus is -8 or more, then you can't hear it. (The equivalent of needing to roll a 2 or less for Per 10.) If not, then make a perception roll with acute hearing and all penalties.

So, for example, Per 14 with Acute Hearing 4 can hear something at the limit of hearing 50% of the time, but anything quieter he can never hear. I'm not sure that's a bad thing, actually, come to think of it. So Per 13 with Acute Hearing 2 is the same as Per 15 most of the time, but Per 15 can only hear something with base penalties of -7, but Per 13 with acute hearing can handle up to -9. If both can hear it, the odds are the same, but the one with Acute hearing can get to roll at all for quieter sounds.

Come to think of it, I might apply that to all sense rolls. At least when it's a case of "can you see/hear it at all," which would be pretty rare, actually.


I think we can agree that High Tech's hearing table has a decent basic idea, but has issues in practice. The two main issues are "can I hear (fill in the blank) at background noise of (fill in the blank)," and adding sounds of a known decibel level at a given distance to the table. I'm pretty much stuck for ideas on how to do that, - a bigger sound loudness difference produces a bigger number, and how the heck do you treat background noise?

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by Captain Joy

Agreed, but I'm thinking they meant to set a realistic maximum for human hearing of 14. Since someone with IQ 13 and Acute Hearing +4 would have a Hearing 17, and I think we all agree that is too high.

I disagree, both with your assumption of what they meant, as well as to universal agreement.

[Ashtagon]

Originally Posted by corwyn

But what really chaffs my chaps is this:

Perception 10 + Acute Hearing 5 = 15 unrealistic and illegal
Perception 20 + Acute Hearing 4 = 24 "realistic"? and legal

I believe Kromm once noted that ability scores higher than 13 are unrealistic anyway.