Ziusudra / Nyx questions

[Keiko]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Same reason why mommy and/or daddy would legally adopt a SAI. Because it is better than a baseline human, and more suited to growing up in the fast-moving world of 2100.

That's a little chilling.

[Keiko]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

*Shrug*. People are good at justifying stuff. If the government of one of the most liberty- and human rights-loving states managed to justify torture without starting a civil war, I don't see people justifying slavery as all that implausible, particularly when there are ready-made excuses such as the fact that these are biological robots assembled, not born.

True. Humans are very good at ignoring, rationalizing and lauding cruelty to the "other" particularly when it directly benefits them. Humans regularly abuse and use each other, undoubtedly human, for selfish benefit today. Much of the world's prosperity is based on exploitation. Many object to it but it continues. I don't want to get political. There are hot button topics involved so I'll just say I could see the US going either way as far as bioroid rights go, just depending how their development shakes out and what forces become involved. In my own campaign, I've taken a more cynical route than canon by preference.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Why would mommy (or daddy) and daddy (or mommy) Fifth Wave want a perfect child that grows up at an accelerated pace? Even if it is possible, it doesn’t work with the intended market for the Ziusudra.

They don't seem to know that, without Early Maturation, Extended Lifespan implies the kid matures at half normal speed. Adding the two together gives you a character that grows up at the normal speed and then ages half as fast.

At least that's how it worked in 3e. The present editon is less clear. And unlike you, Sir Pudding, most of these folks seem confused.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

They don't seem to know that, without Early Maturation, Extended Lifespan implies the kid matures at half normal speed. Adding the two together gives you a character that grows up at the normal speed and then ages half as fast.

One level of Enhanced Maturation does this, yes. That's what the Template as written has, as it should, and that's fine. Vicky seems to proposing that they ought to have Enhanced Maturation 2 or 3 instead (since Bio-Tech permits it at TS's tech level) and use forced-learning VR techniques (as with Bioroids) to compensate for the shorter maturation times. I'm arguing that makes no sense if the intended market for the genome is wealthy Fifth-Wave people who want to be parents of an ideal child. Which is what I see as the intended market.

At least that's how it worked in 3e. The present editon is less clear. And unlike you, Sir Pudding, most of these folks seem confused.

I don't think Vicky is confused about the game mechanical way that Early Maturation interacts with Extended Lifespan.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If that's all they care about, then why don't they just adopt an SAI, or even just ensure that their Ghosts inherit their estate? I imagine that the person who pays to carry a fetus with a tailored Ziusudra genome does so because they want to raise a perfect child, (preferably with as much of their DNA as possible within the design specs) not because they want to ensure that some random unrelated (and unrelatable) robot is personally successful in today's changing world. People are instinctively driven to reproduce by giving birth to human babies that they raise as children until they become adults. People want to throw baseballs in the backyard, and attend piano recitals. They want someone to recapitulate the experiences of their own childhoods now fondly remembered with nostalgia. Parents often feel that their children "grow up too fast" already! The notion of a four or nine year childhood isn't going to have much appeal to people that want to experience parenthood!

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Vicky seems to proposing that they ought to have Enhanced Maturation 2 or 3 instead (since Bio-Tech permits it at TS's tech level) and use forced-learning VR techniques (as with Bioroids) to compensate for the shorter maturation times. I'm arguing that makes no sense if the intended market for the genome is wealthy Fifth-Wave people who want to be parents of an ideal child. Which is what I see as the intended market.

Apparently there are at least three classes of people based on what they want their children to do with childhood: those who fear they grow up too fast (which, taken to the extreme, gives us whswhs' wonderfully creepy 'eternal biodoll' concept), those who are mostly okay with children growing up at their pace, and those who want their children to grow up faster. The latter are already represented in canon: these are the sorts of parents that give their kids cutting-edge nootropics; these are the kids that start working at age 10 and become medical interns or doctors by age 13-14.

The sort of parents who order a Nyx parahuman seem to be closer to the latter.

The bit about what a given parent or parents see as 'their' kid is also variable.

Originally Posted by Keiko

That's a little chilling.

Now that I checked, apparently it was the other way around: the SAI adopted a human baby (corebook); I'm not sure where I encountered the reverse situation, I can't find it right now.

Though bioroid adoption is apparently a thing, and I do mean genuine adoption, not the more usual 'working ward' thing.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

The sort of parents who order a Nyx parahuman seem to be closer to the latter.

I imagine the Nyx is actually just Kress's Sleepless (Beggars in Spain trilogy) with the serial numbers filed off. Just like with the Sleepless the Nyx are an option on an existing set of genome modifications aimed at "ideal children". I don't recall the Sleepless having an accelerated maturation (other than what they got from being unsleeping geniuses to begin with anyway).

[Keiko]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Now that I checked, apparently it was the other way around: the SAI adopted a human baby (corebook); I'm not sure where I encountered the reverse situation, I can't find it right now.

Though bioroid adoption is apparently a thing, and I do mean genuine adoption, not the more usual 'working ward' thing.

I meant the attitude you described in that post was disturbing.

[sir_pudding]

The market for the Nyx seems to be people who want a Ziusundra child who also think sleeping is a waste of valuable time. I don't think these are necessarily the same people that would see helping random robots in the job market as a substitute for parenthood. If anything the Nyx gives the child even more time to "enjoy childhood" without putting them at a developmental disadvantage relative to more-or-less baseline peers.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Keiko

I meant the attitude you described in that post was disturbing.

I occasionally see it now; I'm pretty sure it'll stay around until 2100. I'm surprised you haven't become jaded to such attitudes.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

The market for the Nyx seems to be people who want a Ziusundra child who also think sleeping is a waste of valuable time.

Presumably those people also either don't sleep themselves, have someone else to raise the child, or go nuts because the kid won't sleep even when the parents need sleep.