Strong wizards and weak warriors

[hcobb]

IMHO Legacy has flipped the script on starter warrior and wizard builds. Casting the ordinary Staff spell on a two handed maul sized full wizard's staff gives a semi-mundane weapon that takes no additional memory points (beyond the spell) to use and does 1d at ST 8 or 1d+2 at ST 12. ST 12 is also useful for a wizard as that enables full use of the Light Crossbow, while the Crossbow talent only displaces two spells. So a Legacy wizard with say ST 12, DX 11 and IQ 9 has the maul-staff, (steel) light crossbow, 20 silver quarrels, Literacy, and 5 additional memory points for spells and talents.

But a warrior might want to start with Weapon Expertise and given the very fine steel daggers of Legacy they also do 1d+2 damage at ST 8, or ST 7 (half-elf), or even ST 6 (goblin), giving them additional points for talents from IQ or an improved chance at the backstab of an expert dagger shrewd blow after using Stealth to sneak up behind a foe.

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by hcobb

IMHO Legacy has flipped the script on starter warrior and wizard builds. Casting the ordinary Staff spell on a two handed maul sized full wizard's staff gives a semi-mundane weapon that takes no additional memory points (beyond the spell) to use and does <snip> 1d+2 at ST 12.

Actually under the Classic rules a two-handed maul staff already did 1d+2 at ST 11 or 12, according to Advanced Melee (21). (It comes about because the 1d-2 shown in the table on that page has +4 added for a two-handed club, which nets out for 1d+2).

Not that it's not a good build, just that this part is the same with or without Legacy. Considering a ST 11 Classic wizard could deal out a respectable 1+2 damage with a two-handed staff all along, it's funny I don't recall ever taking advantage of that! But then I armed my best wizards with very fine silver sabers as soon as they could afford one -- guess I never noticed back then what a great stop-gap measure a two-handed staff would make.

Also if you go with ST 12 for a crossbow-armed wizard, then go with a bronze crossbow and bolts. It should do just as much damage as an iron-based one, provided the GM is aware of just how good the Chinese bronze crossbow actually was. Although you could still go with the silver bolts and a bronze crossbow mechanism if you wanted to, and could afford the silver, but strictly speaking the silver bolts shouldn't be necessary in this case.


PS - I already reported the intervening post as looking being highly suspect!

[hcobb]

For an IQ 9 wizard having a steel crossbow in hand has exactly the same impact on his spellcasting as a silver crossbow would, and missile weapons are more subject to dropping your weapons on the ground in the options table. The main reason to not take a sling or longbow is the extra two memory points for a wizard. (And don't even consider the spear thrower staff!)

Classic Adv Wiz page 11 says that even quarterstaffs get nerfed down to 1d when staffed, while Legacy splits zap and smash into different things.
The historical records state that even a "6 stone" Chinese crossbow only reaches 259 meters (a little short of TFT Light Crossbow), while that draw weight is 6 * 64.5 = 387 pounds.
Tod's Workshop spans a 600lb (modern steel) crossbow with a goat's-foot lever for the 6 shots a minute we'd expect for a non-expert to fire the light crossbow.
If my weapons were that crummy I'd build a great wall myself.

Back to the point I was trying to make, Legacy has the same initial attribute total as Classic, but will lower expectations of increasing the size of the pool, but also with much more efficient options. So players can if they wish start out much more powerful than before and keep ahead of their Classic versions, but to do so requires much more specialization.

[Steve Plambeck]

The Chinese bronze crossbow having just a little less range than it's nearest European equivalent is a negligible enough difference at the ranges for most combat in TFT/Melee.

Should the mass of a steel light crossbow's firing mechanism count towards a wizard's iron penalty or not? That's a call I'd probably leave up to the GM. I'd probably say yes, but I wouldn't dispute it if someone else said no. And sure it can be just dropped to cast a spell if you think it should carry the penalty, but it's always nicer to not have to drop anything, which would be the case where no iron was involved in the first place.

[hcobb]

There are entirely wooden crossbows, but these have far less power than the light crossbow. You need the steel bow for the short draw distance of the crossbow to be competitive against composite and long bows. (Composite bows being fine weapons, naturally...)