Dose Lowering Will or Per when raising IQ count against the disadvantage limit?

[dataweaver]

Dropping the player is generally a last resort; but long before you get anywhere near that point, you have the option to veto the character.

Personally, I prefer solutions that are centered around building to character over ones that try to mess with point accounting.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I get sensory perception correlating with health to a degree, but not very strongly so. More so than with IQ, I suppose.

It's a big win for two broad cases - animals (who typically have something around human average senses despite fixed low IQ) and "barbarians" and similar action heroes - who are usually both tough and alert but not necessarily smart.

I think those are both more common than archetypes who are brilliant, perceptive and unhealthy, which is the case you'd now need to apply modifiers for. Your average brilliant unhealthy sage archetype tends to be old, and hence not so sharp sensed anymore.

[smurf]

In high powered point games then the secondary characteristic reduction moved to the extreme is blatant point farming. To discourage it the GM should use games that use these secondary characteristics so the player can 'benefit' those choices taken.

My 1000pts psi (not all psi about 500pts of it) has some fruity disads.

The thinking behind the Will and Per reduction was to keep in line with many other of her disads.

IQ 12 with 11 in both Will and Per

Bad Sight (with Glasses Mit)
Compulsive B News Watcher
Compulsive B Roller Skater
ORH Casual Tail Use
ORH Eaves Dropper
Overconfidence

The only thing that may contract it is Vow won't eat red meat.

-146 pts in Disads (-10 for the Will and Per), some are racial ones.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

Dropping the player is generally a last resort; but long before you get anywhere near that point, you have the option to veto the character.

Personally, I prefer solutions that are centered around building to character over ones that try to mess with point accounting.

Yep, IMO I prefer a player to look at the proportion of disads available and think "is this enough to do the concept I had in mind", rather than "so what's the max disads I can have"

Because to tell the truth if a player needs a few more Disad CPs to do the Character they have in mind and I think the character will work chances are I'll just say go for it.

(truth be told that's pretty much my response to CP total in general, it's not something I'm that tight on)

[Celjabba]

For all those reasons,
I am a big fan of the house rules that disconnect Per and Will from IQ, starting them at 10.
IQ stay priced at [20] per level.

Before I fully switched to that houserule, however, I never had a player complain about reduced attributes counting toward the disads limits.

That said, I also often rules that if a game is, for example, 150+50+5, I give 205 pts to the players and ask them to select "around" 50 pts of disads. I prefer a character with 43 points of disads that he will roleplay than one that hunted for the last 7 points, even if it make no sense.

[AlexanderHowl]

I generally prefer that PCs have no more than 50 points of mental, physical, or social disadvantages (not including any other negative traits). While I might have an NPC who is an Albino Blind Epileptic with Lecherousness (6), Social Stigma (Valuable Property), Status-2, and Xenophila (6) (a slave girl from one of my campaigns that ended up rescuing the characters), I will never let a player have such a character. It is a matter of just keeping each PX balanced against the other PCs.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

But then HT would have 13 points worth of secondary characteristics for 10 points and would still increase HT-linked skills...

Having finally gotten Pyramid #3/83 just for the "Knowing Your Own Strength" (Log ST) rules, I am happy I also got some nice rules for floating a few things around (including Per to HT) in another article called "Playing With Health". The short version is that, if you juggle things around properly, it can make a lot of sense. Not that I've playtested any of it. XP

Also, it doesn't really solve the problem... and I keep going back and forth over whether or not it is a problem, for reasons mentioned throughout this thread.

[dataweaver]

To me, perception and will don't strike me as things that should be tracking with IQ. Therefore, the notion that buying up IQ without buying up perception and or will counts against the disadvantage limit feels wrong.

But then again, the whole notion of the disadvantage limits feels off to me anyway. See my earlier post...

In my games, there are eight attributes: the original four, Plus perception, will, charisma, and speed. I double Speed from the range GURPS uses, and then I split the DX-based skills between DX and Speed according to TBone's alternate Encumbrance rules: the DX-based skills that are affected by the Encumbrance modifier become Speed-based skills. I split IQ-based skills four ways, with Charisma getting the social skills and perception getting the artistic skills (on the basis that artistic expression is by definition about creating something that's pleasing to the senses). On the rare occasion that I actually bother with point costs (see my signature for why I usually don't), I even out all eight attributes at 10 points per level.