Stealth and Chameleon systems, Perception and Teleoperation

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Eh, I'd give the +10 bonus if the person looks in the right direction, but maybe use your raw observation skill or something to decide whether you look in the right direction in the first place.

Why wouldn't she just look up when she hears a drone? I do in real life...

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Why wouldn't she just look up when she hears a drone? I do in real life...

Because of not hearing it? I'd give the in plain sight bonus assuming vision is relevant in the first place.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Because of not hearing it?

She does hear it though, per the OP.

[Crystalline_Entity]

Hmm, it sounds like there's a reasonable case here for always awarding the +10 plain sight bonus to Vision rolls as long as they're not concealed behind something. I'm not sure if camouflage such as a chameleon system counts though - it's not like something is obstructing the view to the scout robot.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

OTOH, there's no reason for Bob to be flying NOE here (unless he is worried about Radar or something). Even TL8 reconnaissance cameras can get the needed resolution from much farther away.

That's something I hadn't picked up on, I had no idea what sort of distance was appropriate! Especially given that the scout robot has Telescopic Vision and Hyperspectral Vision, much further away would decrease the chance of detection and still enable Bob to remotely photograph the MacGuffin.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

She does hear it though, per the OP.

Having looked that the modifiers vicky_molokh pointed me to on HT158, it seems that Alice should have failed her hearing roll, both because she's distracted (searching for ground level threats) and the street is somewhat busy.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Crystalline_Entity

Hmm, it sounds like there's a reasonable case here for always awarding the +10 plain sight bonus to Vision rolls as long as they're not concealed behind something. I'm not sure if camouflage such as a chameleon system counts though - it's not like something is obstructing the view to the scout robot.

IME, you get the bonus if the thing you are looking for is in the open. Traditional camouflage makes it opposed, and active camouflage gives a huge bonus to Stealth.

Having looked that the modifiers vicky_molokh pointed me to on HT158, it seems that Alice should have failed her hearing roll, both because she's distracted (searching for ground level threats) and the street is somewhat busy.

In which case then an Observation versus Shadowing roll to see if she even looks up at all seems appropriate. Shadowing in this case probably should get a +2 for abilities benefiting skills.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Crystalline_Entity

Hmm, it sounds like there's a reasonable case here for always awarding the +10 plain sight bonus to Vision rolls as long as they're not concealed behind something. I'm not sure if camouflage such as a chameleon system counts though - it's not like something is obstructing the view to the scout robot.

Here's how I would look at it.

Baseline: You have Stealth-10 and are trying not to be spotted by someone with Per-10.

Now, let's say you have Chameleon 8. I'm picking that because it costs the same as Invisibility, and because it gives you +8 to Stealth when moving, whereas Invisibility gives you a flat +9, so this is the highest level of Chameleon that's not "as good as Invisibility.'

You are trying to avoid notice, and have retreated into what turns out to be an empty cubicle 6' across. There is nothing to hide under or behind. You use your Chameleon ability to assume the color of the walls and floor.

* I'm going to assume that you can get a Stealth roll by standing completely still; otherwise the +8/+16 for Chameleon does you no good at all.

* You stand completely still, hoping not to be seen. You roll against Stealth at +16, which is a 26 or less. Your worst roll is an 18, which is an 8-point margin of success. If your pursuer doesn't get the +10 "in plain sight" modifier, they roll against 10, and their best roll is a 3, which is a 7-point margin. So just by standing still, and being the same color as the wall, you make it completely impossible for a person 6 feet away to see you. I personally don't think that's realistic; at that distance you're going to be in relief against the wall, effectively a human-sized shape sticking out from it, and the eye can detect that sort of thing even without color differences.

* If the pursuer gets +10 to Vision, then they are rolling against a 20. On your worst roll, your margin of success is 8, and they see you on a 12 or less. On an average roll, it's 16, and they see you on a 4 or less. On your best roll, it's 23, and their best roll gives them a margin of 17, so they still can't see you. You have a big advantage, but it's still a contest.

* Say you're trying to move up to them and attack them. We'll say that "wait until they're not looking in your direction" is a use of Stealth. Now your effective Stealth is 18. If they don't get the "in plain sight" bonus, it's a Quick Contest of 18 against 10, and you can pretty much count on a free attack. If you get it, then when you move, it's a Quick Contest of 18 against 20, and they very likely see you; at most you get partial surprise, if they didn't spot you when you were frozen.

My feeling is that "standing/moving in the open, with nothing to hide behind or under" gives more plausible odds if you are considered to be in plain sight.

So, now, say that you're 60 feet away, on a featureless plain. You foe's vision is at -6 for distance. So by my analysis, they're rolling against a 14. You're rolling against a 26 if you freeze (the odds favor your being unnoticed, but there's a tiny change they spot you), but an 18 if you move (the odds still favor you, but now their chance has gone from tiny to small). That doesn't seem terribly implausible. But in any case you're applying exactly the same rules; the only difference is the range modifier.

Does that make sense?

[Crystalline_Entity]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Here's how I would look at it.

<snip>

Does that make sense?

That does makes sense, thanks. I agree at six foot I'd expect to be able to see the outline of a person due to there being a human shape sticking out from the wall, and adding the +10 gives more of the sort of probabilities I think I'd expect to model that - it certainly shouldn't be impossible for someone six feet away to see you. I think I'll go with allowing the +10 bonus even when people are trying to hide, it might not be RAW but I think I like the results better.

Thanks very much for your help!