[Powers] Nature power modifier

[Overheat]

I am working on the background for a possible future campaign and was looking at making a group of Druids that have a Plant Control power with the Nature PM (P28). I wanted to stat them out both for practice and in case a player would want to join them.

It seems to me like Talent would apply normally to offset the penalties for civilization or technology for abilities that require a roll to activate. However, it seems that Talent would not affect the loss of effectiveness on abilities that do not require a die roll.

I want to always have the abilities work at full power or not at all, so the below are my questions on how to make it work. I have looked at "The Role of Talent" (P158), but I am not sure if anything listed there relates to this, other than Rule Zero.


My questions-

1. Should/does Talent actual help offset those penalties? As in, if you have 3 levels of Talent, can you use Penetrating Vision (Wood) at full effectiveness in a city wearing only TL0 gear? What about Reliable?

2. Does slapping the "Requires (Attribute) Roll" limitation (P112) on the ability fix this problem? I think this gets rid of any abilities working at partial power, which I like since I do not know (as the GM) what a 60% power Permeate (Wood) would do.

3. The problem with the above is that now even in natural forest and TL0 gear your ability can now fail, which is fair, since you took a limitation on your ability. But the above was just a workaround to get Talent to offset penalties on ability use. What enhancements would be needed so that the ability would work with no roll normally if the Nature PM penalty was equal to or less than your Talent level, but that you would roll vs IQ +Talent -Penalty if it were greater?

Whatever those enhancements are, they should probably be equal to or less than 30%, since that the limitation value from Nature and Requires IQ roll. I think there might be something possible with No Nuisance Rolls, but think of Druids with only 10 IQ. What would be the cost of an enhancement that lets you freely add Requires IQ Roll to an ability whenever you wished on an ability that doesn't otherwise have it?


TL;DR-I want abilities with no roll normally required to still have no roll required if the penalty from Nature PM is less than or equal to your Talent level, and for you to roll vs IQ+Talent at the Nature PM penalty otherwise.

[dataweaver]

I'd just allow it as a special rule that's particular to powers that are penalized by TL. I don't know if that's official; but it's not unbalanced, and that's what really matters.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Overheat

1. Should/does Talent actual help offset those penalties? As in, if you have 3 levels of Talent, can you use Penetrating Vision (Wood) at full effectiveness in a city wearing only TL0 gear? What about Reliable?

I'd allow it.

2. Does slapping the "Requires (Attribute) Roll" limitation (P112) on the ability fix this problem? I think this gets rid of any abilities working at partial power, which I like since I do not know (as the GM) what a 60% power Permeate (Wood) would do.

Yes.... A 60% would reduce the Power's effectiveness by 40%. However in some cases I'd have it do other things...

So for example Permeation (Wood) I would reduce their Move through wood that contain TL impurities (nails, glues, etc) and possibly stop entering or leaving entirely by non-wood coatings (paint, lacquers, etc), and possibly do damage for passing through impurities (again like nails - but only with a Nuisance Effect of, say -5%).

3. The problem with the above is that now even in natural forest and TL0 gear your ability can now fail, which is fair, since you took a limitation on your ability. But the above was just a workaround to get Talent to offset penalties on ability use. What enhancements would be needed so that the ability would work with no roll normally if the Nature PM penalty was equal to or less than your Talent level, but that you would roll vs IQ +Talent -Penalty if it were greater?

Rule Zero covers this just fine.

What would be the cost of an enhancement that lets you freely add Requires IQ Roll to an ability whenever you wished on an ability that doesn't otherwise have it?

Can you give example why a Player would wish to do this?

TL;DR-I want abilities with no roll normally required to still have no roll required if the penalty from Nature PM is less than or equal to your Talent level, and for you to roll vs IQ+Talent at the Nature PM penalty otherwise.

Rule Zero is fine here.

[Overheat]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Can you give example why a Player would wish to do this?

As part of a way to try to stat what I want out. This would be part of that by allowing you to roll if otherwise your ability would be X% less effective, but not require it if it would be at full power anyway.

I am trying to figure out if what I want is Rule Zero (+0%) or something like Rule Zero (+15%).

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Overheat

As part of a way to try to stat what I want out. This would be part of that by allowing you to roll if otherwise your ability would be X% less effective, but not require it if it would be at full power anyway.

Ah, so it is an advantage to do so, that's what I needed to know.

I am trying to figure out if what I want is Rule Zero (+0%) or something like Rule Zero (+15%).

Well... firstly I wouldn't call it Rule Zero...

If being able to avoid rolling when the Power Skill is XX or higher (when you as the GM want it to just work) and there are no negative drawbacks, then I'd set it at final skill required 17 and rule zero it. IE, I'd bake into the Power Modifier description and not worry about percentages.

If you want the PC to have the choice between rolling and it working at full power on a success, failing completely on a failure, or being able to forego rolling and accept reduced power...

Hmmm. I'd probably also bake this into the Power Modifier.

Let's look at what comprises the Nature Power Source, to better see how much to tweak it.

So, it's comprised of two seperate -10% Limitations, both of which are expected to be in full effect. If you want to give the Player the capacity to ignore those Limitations that will reduce one of them. I'd conservatively call the new, modified Nature Power Source -15%. I wouldn't add a "Requires Roll" Limitation because we're baking it into the Source and it's actually reducing the severity of the source... unless you require them to always roll and toss out the "No Nuisance Rolls", then I'd go ahead and put it back in.



Side Note: I'm ignoring an awful lot with "No Nuisance Rolls". Canonically this exists as a Perk and operates outside the Power building framework. Canonically, if you want a Power to not need rolls you need to use Cosmic (No Roll Required), however as that is meant to mitigate the roll if the skill is 3 or higher and it's +100%, it's not a good fit for what you want.

I could see arguments made for it being lowered to some amount, but without knowing what TL your game is set at and how prevalent cities and TL 1+ tools will be in the Characters lives, it's impossible to determine where to set it. Also... since you want it to be "When all TL and City penalties are mitigated" which is very loosey-goosey... it's going to come down "what feels right" rather than "what the rules say hard and fast".

[Overheat]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Snip.

I wouldn't call it Rule Zero, that was just my trying to be funny with whatever unknown modifier name I would end up using.

I agree that modifying the PM seems much easier. I would let Talent apply to offset the penalty for abilities that normally would not have a roll. Instead of trying to figure out have a -40% power Permeate (Wood) is, just apply limitations equal to -40%.

So my idea it that an ability that is X% less effective due to the Nature PM would be hindered by -X% of limitations. I guess I would make a chart of the entire range of -10% to -90% and what those limitations would be.

Unreliable as an example- if the Nature PM penalties were a total of -7, and you had three levels of Talent, that is a net penalty of -4, so 40% loss of effectiveness. That would be Unreliable 8- (-40%).

[AlexanderHowl]

Nature should probably be worth -5×(TL)% as a modifier, as it hurts much more in a TL8 campaign than in a TL4 campaign.

[Overheat]

I ended up going with the below for now.-

Nature PM works normally for abilities with a roll, but for abilities that normally do not require a roll, roll vs 14+Talent at the Nature PM penalty if the penalty is more than your Talent level. This is instead of having them became X% less effective due to the Nature PM.