Battlesuit ST

[Joseph Paul]

Does it bother anyone else that Battlesuits are built with no upper limit to their mechanical power? ST 10 trooper gets in his suit and he has ST 20. ST 30 humanoid gets in the same model and the suit performs at ST 40. Why isn't that extra 20 points of ST available to the ST 10 guy? Mechanically what is happening here?

I am of a mind to write up suits in 5 point ST steps that are a hard upper limit on what the suit can do. So ST 10 trooper in a ST 15 suits can strike and lift at ST 15. ST 15 trooper is gaining no real benefit outside of increased encumbrance (and having a hefty cestus on his hand all the time; something else not taken into account with Battlesuits).

Any Pyramid articles cover this and alternatives to mechanical systems that have no upper bounds on performance?

[Celjabba]

You can use fixed ST (Gurps Super iirc). In which case a ST 20 suit have ST 20 no matter if driven by a fly or Thor.
Or you can use + ST that add a fixed amount of ST.
I don't believe there is a pricing scheme for a suit that instead increase ST by a set percentage of the wearer ST.

[Joseph Paul]

Fixed ST is more to my mind set and gets rid of magically expansive mechanical systems. I would just detail several models with different ST for any particular suit in UT or Basic so that it had different uses. Lighter faster ones with less ST for scouting and others with more ST for specific assault/engineering roles.

[sir_pudding]

Presumably the idea is that a realistic exoskeleton augments rather than replaces wearer strength. Because ST is quadratic, adding ST is really a multiplier for the characters lifting power. A very strong exoskeleton that just moves on its own without feedback would probably break your limbs.

[weby]

The third edition battlesuits all had fixed ST that is not based on wearer ST. I never understood the reason for the change in 4e. The fixed ST made more sense from a technical standpoint.

How could the TL 9 battledress suddenly lift 10 times more weight if worn by a stronger wearer. The material technology or the arm motors did not get any better...

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Presumably the idea is that a realistic exoskeleton augments rather than replaces wearer strength. Because ST is quadratic, adding ST is really a multiplier for the characters lifting power. A very strong exoskeleton that just moves on its own without feedback would probably break your limbs.

The whole point of the battlesuit/exoskeleton is the feedback mechanism, the feedback mechanism should not be strong enough to cause extra fatigue in any case as something that would break weaker limbs would do even to stronger people.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Presumably the idea is that a realistic exoskeleton augments rather than replaces wearer strength. Because ST is quadratic, adding ST is really a multiplier for the characters lifting power. A very strong exoskeleton that just moves on its own without feedback would probably break your limbs.

That becomes silly if you are doing battlesuits for superheroes. We have, say, a battlesuit that boost Tony Stark from ST 11 to ST 31, raising his BL from 24 lbs. to 192 lbs. Now Peter Parker puts it on. Does it raise his ST from 31 to 51, and his BL from 192 lbs. to 520 lbs.? On one hand, the factor of increase has gotten smaller, which sort of makes sense; but on the other, the absolute increase has gone from 168 lbs. to 328 lbs. And it could be even worse! Suppose Prince Namor puts it on; does it raise his ST from 81 to 101, and his BL from 1312 lbs. to 2040 lbs., a boost of 728 lbs?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by weby

The whole point of the battlesuit/exoskeleton is the feedback mechanism, the feedback mechanism should not be strong enough to cause extra fatigue in any case as something that would break weaker limbs would do even to stronger people.

That feedback means that you are still lifting things with your own muscles, and the exoskeleton is just augmenting that by supporting you. Lifting something with an exoskeleton is more like lifting something with help (where you get to sum the BLs of the lifters) than it is like telling a robot (or using a forklift or jack) to lift something. If it was like a robot arm, and just moved around without regard for the movement of the limb inside, that would be bad, for obvious reasons.

Originally Posted by whswhs

That becomes silly if you are doing battlesuits for superheroes.

Sure, but superheros are already silly! Superhero powered armor isn't really the same thing as realistic powered exoskeletons and probably ought to use different mechanics.

[zoncxs]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Presumably the idea is that a realistic exoskeleton augments rather than replaces wearer strength. Because ST is quadratic, adding ST is really a multiplier for the characters lifting power. A very strong exoskeleton that just moves on its own without feedback would probably break your limbs.

With this in mind, shouldn't there be a limit still? To me the suit should be a divider for the weight to be carried and have an upper limit. so for an ST 10 suit this adds 20 lbs to the BL of the user. for someone with ST 10 this would make things feel like its only 1/2 the normal weight. for someone with ST 20, the suit doesn't help, you are helping the suit!

I am sleepy so if none of this makes sense its because I am sleepy and should be ignored...

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Joseph Paul

Does it bother anyone else that Battlesuits are built with no upper limit to their mechanical power? ST 10 trooper gets in his suit and he has ST 20. ST 30 humanoid gets in the same model and the suit performs at ST 40. Why isn't that extra 20 points of ST available to the ST 10 guy? Mechanically what is happening here?

Well, in theory the battlesuit is augmenting the user's strength rather than replacing it, though in the first case we've got +60 BL (20->80) while in the second we have +140 (180->320). Realistically, either the battlesuit should be adding a flat amount of BL, or the weight and cost of the battlesuit should scale with the wearer, but both are a hassle and have the side effect of making ST even less useful than it already is in high tech games.

[kabson]

Originally Posted by Joseph Paul

Does it bother anyone else that Battlesuits are built with no upper limit to their mechanical power? ST 10 trooper gets in his suit and he has ST 20. ST 30 humanoid gets in the same model and the suit performs at ST 40. Why isn't that extra 20 points of ST available to the ST 10 guy? Mechanically what is happening here?

Perhaps reverse the concept? The user's strength is augmenting the battlesuit systems? So suit ST 10 + variable user's ST.