04-30-2014, 05:11 PM | #11 |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: TL4 Without Iron
It can't be answered without a PhD level of research and analysis.
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Compact Castles gives the gamer an instant portfolio of genuine, real-world castle floorplans to use in any historical, low-tech, or fantasy game setting. |
04-30-2014, 05:14 PM | #12 | ||
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Re: TL4 Without Iron
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This is really a tangent though. |
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04-30-2014, 05:18 PM | #13 |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: TL4 Without Iron
Early adopters of iron were those who had limited access to bronze. All they were doing was trying to keep up with their bronze-using neighbours. They never had an advantage over them.
My initial point is that there would be no TL4 society on Earth without iron. You can't simply replace iron with bronze. There isn't enough accessable tin and copper on the planet.
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Compact Castles gives the gamer an instant portfolio of genuine, real-world castle floorplans to use in any historical, low-tech, or fantasy game setting. Last edited by DanHoward; 04-30-2014 at 05:28 PM. |
04-30-2014, 05:19 PM | #14 | |
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Re: TL4 Without Iron
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Well okay. Lots of advances past TL1 don't require iron to use, but I can certainly see the argument that the hypothetical society would be too fundamentally different from historical TL4 societies. This is really just an attempt to grasp how bronze behaves in it's own right in the absence of iron. The actual setting I have in mind will have a rather more complicated material set up but I want to have a baseline to work from. So I'd appreciate generosity regarding skepticism of hypothetiland. Last edited by Sindri; 04-30-2014 at 05:28 PM. |
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04-30-2014, 05:31 PM | #15 |
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Re: TL4 Without Iron
Perhaps those who think the question answerable can offer answers before those who think otherwise declare the discussion over.
I'd like a clarification: are we on Earth but with iron sunken deeper into the crust and therefore unavailable, or are we on a different, otherwise earthlike planet? Adam Smith mused that it was a mystery how iron mining got going, since it's found deep within the earth: presumably someone knew to look for it! (I assume the question has since been answered, but I don't know myself.) Are iron meteorites available, if rare? Perhaps we're positing a "Bronzepunk" setting in which ordinary technology exists but is different. Metal more expensive and more exquisite. Firearms limited to bronze cannons (or would hand cannons be plausible?). Wooden trebuchets shooting lead slugs and walled cities almost into the modern day. Seems interesting, no? |
04-30-2014, 05:33 PM | #16 |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: TL4 Without Iron
In the campaign I'm starting up in July, set in a bronze age world, I've done some work on this. Historically, tin is the third most expensive metal, after gold and silver. In GURPS, gold is $20,000 a pound, and silver is $1,000 a pound; some fiddling with numbers made it look like $750 a pound was about right for tin.
I'm having copper priced like low-end steel (good quality), but mechanically weak (cheap quality); since silver weapons have a x20 cost multiplier, I made copper $50 a pound. Bronze is on the order of 90% copper and 10% tin; its raw materials come to $45 + $75 = $120. I'm having bronze priced like fine material, but mechanically equal to good material; that's a 4x multiplier for blades, or $200 a pound. I'm figuring that the extra $80 comes from the furnace construction, the fuel, and the skill to cast the bronze; a 2:1 factor is close enough so I'm willing to handwave it. I don't argue that this is the uniquely right way to do it in GURPS. But it looks close enough to suit my needs. It might work for yours. Bill Stoddard |
04-30-2014, 05:33 PM | #17 | |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: TL4 Without Iron
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Compact Castles gives the gamer an instant portfolio of genuine, real-world castle floorplans to use in any historical, low-tech, or fantasy game setting. Last edited by DanHoward; 04-30-2014 at 05:39 PM. |
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04-30-2014, 05:40 PM | #18 | ||
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Re: TL4 Without Iron
One thing I'd be interested in hearing about; Does TL4 offer any ways to extract copper and tin that TL1 couldn't get to? Not just improvements in ease or profitability but actual increases in potentially accessible metal?
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I'm glad you think you think this sort of stuff is interesting! It interests me too. Quote:
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04-30-2014, 05:41 PM | #19 | |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: TL4 Without Iron
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Compact Castles gives the gamer an instant portfolio of genuine, real-world castle floorplans to use in any historical, low-tech, or fantasy game setting. |
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04-30-2014, 05:45 PM | #20 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
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Re: TL4 Without Iron
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Yes, iron or nickle-iron meteorites aren't particularly unusual, as far as significant-sized meteorites that make it to the surface without completely disintegrating go. They're a large portion of asteroids, and tough so have good odds of surviving atmospheric entry. Some iron artifacts have been determined to be forged from meteoric iron. Before you ask, it's generally not very interesting, verging on "worse than" boring earthly iron, simply because you don't have to know a lot to get access to it, therefore you often don't know to refine the metal properly :) Native iron (and meteoric iron) introduces you to the idea of iron. But if you're mining copper, you've probably figured out copper ore and the idea of "fancy coloured rocks what got metal in them" is a well known thing. After THAT, with that bit of trivia floating around, inevitably someone is going to wonder about ores of iron. The (somewhat) trickier part is learning THIS ore has iron in it, since you're not going to accidentally get it out when smelting copper, tin, or gold under normal conditions. I idly wonder if experiments in pottery or glassmaking turned it up first; iron ores usually make lovely black and red pigments, and ceramics need some high temperatures.
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bronze, economics, low-tech, low-tech companion 2, metallurgy |
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