Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-18-2024, 10:02 AM   #21
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Umbrella as an Improvised Weapon

Quote:
Originally Posted by SRoach View Post
I could see making an umbrella durable enough to use as a weapon, but the resulting thing would be heavy, which would probably discourage its use as an umbrella, or carrying it around on the chance of rain. Modern umbrellas, in my experience, are flimsy, but at least they're handy. Until they come apart, anyway.
The previously-linked "Unbreakable Umbrella" is a little over 1.5 lb, which is certainly heavier than a cheap telescoping one but seems within the range of a good-quality solid umbrella. It seems like it would work fine as an umbrella, despite being designed specifically to be used as a self-defense weapon. It's largely just made of more durable materials than a typical umbrella.
__________________
GURPS Overhaul
Varyon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2024, 10:19 AM   #22
acrosome
 
acrosome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Land of Enchantment
Default Re: Umbrella as an Improvised Weapon

What skill, though? Umbrellas are light and probably of the right length, so Smallsword? Or should it be Shortsword? Or are they unbalanced enough to need Axe/Mace? I could argue for any of them.
acrosome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2024, 11:39 AM   #23
Dalillama
 
Dalillama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default Re: Umbrella as an Improvised Weapon

Depending on the size of the umbrella, treat it as a baton or cane, so you could use it with Shortsword/Smallsword or Broadsword/Rapier as appropriate. If it's reinforced for self-defense (such umbrellas can be had today and have existed at least since the 19th century), that's it. Otherwise it breaks like a Cheap or worse weapon, and probably has -1 damage on a swing
Dalillama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2024, 01:05 PM   #24
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Umbrella as an Improvised Weapon

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrosome View Post
What skill, though? Umbrellas are light and probably of the right length, so Smallsword? Or should it be Shortsword? Or are they unbalanced enough to need Axe/Mace? I could argue for any of them.
Shortsword is probably the closest fit, although personally I don't see much issue with allowing anything usable with that to be usable with Smallsword (a swing-heavy weapon like a falchion or machete might be a little questionable, but then I don't think Smallsword should be restricted to thrusts-only anyway). Depending on the design, flipping it around and whacking the target with the handle might use Axe/Mace, but only if said handle is relatively heavy. Larger umbrellas can probably use Broadsword/Rapier. Note the character will basically be "choking up" on the weapon above the release lever - trying to fight while holding it by the handle is just asking for it to open itself up, and an open umbrella is basically useless as a weapon (too much air resistance).
__________________
GURPS Overhaul
Varyon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2024, 02:55 PM   #25
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: Umbrella as an Improvised Weapon

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrosome View Post
What skill, though? Umbrellas are light and probably of the right length, so Smallsword? Or should it be Shortsword? Or are they unbalanced enough to need Axe/Mace? I could argue for any of them.
It depends on the brolly.

The one used by Jet Li in the linked YouTube clip is clearly being used as a Short Staff, using Smallsword skill, at least mostly, with quick grip changes to use it with Shortsword skill (swung by the handle or used to stab) or Axe/Mace (held by the tip and used to hook).
Pursuivant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2024, 06:59 PM   #26
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: Umbrella as an Improvised Weapon

I got intrigued by the OP's question and did some research. Here's my selection of historical and modern umbrellas and how they might be used in combat, cinematic or otherwise.

Weights and costs for TL5+ goods are based on actual fact-checking, with prices mostly courtesy of the Amazonopoly, but also the wonderful 1916 Montgomery Ward Catalog available at Archive.org. Weights and costs for pre-TL5 goods are based on data for comparable modern items, but are made up.

Weapon equivalents and skills used are mostly based on videos linked up-thread. Jet Li's cinematic take on Umbrella-Fu was particularly useful and fun, so that's where I started. The training videos for the Unbreakable Umbrella were depressingly pragmatic. You whomp people with the haft and poke them with the tip and that's it.

Info for umbrellas used to protect against pepper spray and surveillance videos came from the most-recent Hong Kong protests.

YMMV.

Spoiler:  

Last edited by Pursuivant; 06-20-2024 at 07:03 PM.
Pursuivant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2024, 10:07 PM   #27
SRoach
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Default Re: Umbrella as an Improvised Weapon

That last bit is excellent.

I wanted to make two comments.
One, SOME telescoping umbrellas will telescope, if the canopy is bound, while others will not telescope UNLESS the canopy can also open. I've handled both.
Two, with your Bulgarian umbrella, I'm pretty sure it's heavy metal poisoning that kills the victim, rather than the radiation of the polonium pellet. That it is radioactive is probably a compromise, as it probably makes the umbrella easier to detect, and the nature of the "illness" easier to discern. I could be wrong on this. Perhaps they're also banking on the radioactivity to add to the psychological horror of the attack, or perhaps the radiation is actually significant enough in its own right.
SRoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2024, 06:44 PM   #28
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: Umbrella as an Improvised Weapon

Quote:
Originally Posted by SRoach View Post
One, SOME telescoping umbrellas will telescope, if the canopy is bound, while others will not telescope UNLESS the canopy can also open. I've handled both.
True, but read "Your Mileage May Vary" as "Steal with both hands and adapt as you see fit."

Quote:
Originally Posted by SRoach View Post
Two, with your Bulgarian umbrella, I'm pretty sure it's heavy metal poisoning that kills the victim, rather than the radiation of the polonium pellet.
I think you're right, since I'm no toxicologist. Anyhow, the KGB-motivated Bulgarian assassins of Sergei Markov used ricin as their poison of choice. Polonium was speculation on my part, but it seems to be more of a 21st century FSB thing, when nerve agents aren't an option and "accidents" like airplane crashes or falls out of high windows can't be arranged.

While many (most?) radioactive elements are toxic in their own right, ingesting a strong alpha radiation emitter like polonium can still mess you up really good. It might not kill you immediately, but it will make you sick for a long time and massively boosts your chances of getting cancer in the long run. Also, as you pointed out, it's a fantastic method of sending a very pointed "from Russia with love" message. It might also seriously confuse doctors who aren't familiar with radiation poisoning and who don't think to order an x-ray. Even so, tea is the traditional delivery vehicle, not a pointy umbrella.
Pursuivant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2024, 06:50 AM   #29
Agemegos
 
Agemegos's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oz
Default Re: Umbrella as an Improvised Weapon

Quote:
Originally Posted by SRoach View Post
I'm pretty sure it's heavy metal poisoning that kills the victim, rather than the radiation of the polonium pellet.
I'm not an expert to be sure, but my understanding is that polonium is an alpha-emitter. The radiation that it emits is short-ranged in air and will not penetrate the outermost layer of the human epidermis, and so it does not present a radiological hazard while it is outside the body. But when it is introduced into the body (usually by the ingestion of soluble salts, or inhaled with tobacco smoke) things are very different. It is not chemically toxic to a significant degree, but alpha particles from polonium decay inside living cells are devastating.

The LD₅₀ for polonium-210 is estimated as 0.089 micrograms ingested, inhaled, or absorbed through the skin, from radiological effects alone.
__________________

Decay is inherent in all composite things.
Nod head. Get treat.
Agemegos is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
improvised weapon, martial arts, umbrella

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.