Just How Am I Intimidating?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Railstar

Your reply comes across as ignoring the points I was seeking to clarify more than would make sense for a simple miscommunication, which has happened before, so I'm going to drop it there because I do not see continuing the discussion as constructive. In my mind if Intimidation relies purely on fear it becomes a far more limited skill, and the idea that someone is impressed rather than frightened by a threat does not strike me as fundamentally failing.

I'm not sure what points of clarification you think I should have been engaging with.

I understand your last sentence, and can't disagree with it really, but in case it was somehow not clear I think it is absolutely correct for Intimidation to be limited in that way. Having Intimidation work by making someone like you is like having Sex Appeal work by making an alien afraid you will poison it with your bodily secretions.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Ransom

The same problem comes up in the other direction: you could ask why a character with ST 18, IQ 8, Bad Temper, Berserk, and Bloodlust is by default less intimidating than Joe Average with the same amount of points in Intimidation. The answer is the same - while he is less skilled at intimidating people, that doesn't mean he will be less successful, as he is a walking credible threat in and of himself and will thus be getting higher bonuses and lower penalties most of the time when making threats.
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With IQ 8 (and will 8) is default skill is 2 less than some with IQ 10 (and will 10), however:

Modifiers: +1 to +4 for displays of strength, bloodthirstiness, or supernatural powers (GM’s judgment);

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I'm not sure what points of clarification you think I should have been engaging with.

I understand your last sentence, and can't disagree with it really, but in case it was somehow not clear I think it is absolutely correct for Intimidation to be limited in that way. Having Intimidation work by making someone like you is like having Sex Appeal work by making an alien afraid you will poison it with your bodily secretions.

Respect isn't the same thing as "like".

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Respect isn't the same thing as "like".

None of Michael Corleone's competitor's "like" him.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Ransom

The same problem comes up in the other direction: you could ask why a character with ST 18, IQ 8, Bad Temper, Berserk, and Bloodlust is by default less intimidating than Joe Average with the same amount of points in Intimidation. The answer is the same - while he is less skilled at intimidating people, that doesn't mean he will be less successful, as he is a walking credible threat in and of himself and will thus be getting higher bonuses and lower penalties most of the time when making threats.

If the threat in question is non-physical (say threatening to publish incriminating/embarrassing info online), well, you would expect Joe Average to be more successful.

He's also not actually intimidating, he's frightening.

I know, I know, it sounds like I'm splitting hairs, but I think Bill really put this to bed a few pages back, but we keep coming back to it, so here it goes.

Intimidation is not the skill of being frightening anymore than Sex Appeal is the skill of being really attractive. You can be butt-ugly and have a Sex Appeal of 20. Intimidation is not just the art of making use of your circumstances to frighten someone, it's the art of getting what you want through implied threats

The problem with the berserking, bloodlusting IQ 8 guy is that once everyone has gone "Holy crap! That guy is scary!" he can't really turn that into something profitable. He's too busy accidentally killing everyone, and breathing heavily and giving people psychotic death stairs to remember to say "Now, tell me what I want to know."

No, it's the IQ 19 kid who smiles and says "This guy is my friend. He listens to me. I'm one of the few people who keeps him in check. Now. Tell me what I want to know."

[jason taylor]

In any case, I can see how I would be intimidated upon meeting someone with Selfless, Charitable, and Pacifism. That sounds like one scary dude. He would make me feel, well, unholy.

I remember reading from Natan Sharansky. And one of my first thoughts was, "This feels kinda funny."

Or for another way to look at it, remember Victor Lazlo walking into Rick's. He obviously didn't have pacifism. He had presence. He was certainly someone one could imagine that one would die for. But he was also someone one could imagine shrinking from like a moth from a light bulb.

Of course that is Charisma. But if it is likely to give the second reaction it can be intimidation. And clearly Lazlo could intimidate if he wished.

[Boomerang]

Miranda Priestly from The Devil Wears Prada is intimidating. Frank Underwood from House of Cards is intimidating. Doctor House from House is intimidating. None of these characters are physically tough. What good intimidators have in common is above average IQ and a healthy mean streak. Disadvantages like Pacifism should incur a penalty to intimidation checks.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Boomerang

Disadvantages like Pacifism should incur a penalty to intimidation checks.

Pacifism doesn't usually stop you from hurting people in non-physical ways, so you can still use threats like that. You'd presumably have to resort to specious intimidation if you wanted to threaten violence that's prohibited by your Disadvantage.

[dbm]

Stephen Fry tells an anecdote about when he was being bullied as a boy in a private school. He used to say to the bullies "Please don't hit me; it gives me an erection."

I would suggest that this might be an example of using intelligence to intimidate an opponent - preying on their self doubt, flaws in their self image and so on.

[Boomerang]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Pacifism doesn't usually stop you from hurting people in non-physical ways, so you can still use threats like that. You'd presumably have to resort to specious intimidation if you wanted to threaten violence that's prohibited by your Disadvantage.

My expectation of PCs is that they embrace their disadvantages, not find ways to circumvent them. If you have Pacifism Cannot Kill for instance you can't even leave a foe to die. Technically you aren't killing them in that case but the point is to follow the spirit not the letter of the law when it comes to Disadvantages.