Is the point cost for heroin addiction in Basic Set wrong?

[Polydamas]

I also wonder if say in the USA in the 1980s heroin was more expensive than it is in the USA today. The price of addictive substances varies depending on whether local governments suppress them, tolerate them, or encourage them.

Something like alcohol will be more expensive in Saudi Arabia than in Denmark, and more expensive in Denmark than in Russia.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

I also wonder if say in the USA in the 1980s heroin was more expensive than it is in the USA today. The price of addictive substances varies depending on whether local governments suppress them, tolerate them, or encourage them.

Something like alcohol will be more expensive in Saudi Arabia than in Denmark, and more expensive in Denmark than in Russia.

Heroin was still mostly imported from Asia in the 1980s to the US. Today, it's mostly imported from Mexico. It would be surprising if this hadn't affected relative pricing, independent from inflation.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Heroin was still mostly imported from Asia in the 1980s to the US. Today, it's mostly imported from Mexico. It would be surprising if this hadn't affected relative pricing, independent from inflation.

I'm not sure I believe that would affect pricing on its own, but changes in how international trade operates since the 1980s might?

If random internet articles are to be believed, fentanyl in the US is largely brought in from Mexico...where it is made from precursors that are transported from Asia through the US.

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I'm not sure I believe that would affect pricing on its own, but changes in how international trade operates since the 1980s might?

I find it believable that competition from other illegal drugs has also had an effect on the price of heroin. In a "not just one cause for the effect" sense.

[Polydamas]

Its also possible to know people who use and or deal in chemicals which the local government does not approve of, while being vague on how much a habitual user typically spends per month.

Examples can only be examples because eg. the cash cost and legal risks of being an opium user in Afghanistan are different than in the UK

[martinl]

Additions should probably have a cost modifier based on lethality.

• Caffeine addition probably won't ever kill you.
• Sugar addiction will probably take decades to kill you.
• Lethal alcohol overdose is not rare and alcohol intoxication often leads to lethal accidents.

Above this line there's probably no modifier for the assumed GURPS adventuring lifestyle.

However.

Modern street opioids are probably something like: "Roll 3d, on a 6 or less you got free extra fentanyl. Make a HT roll. (Insert opioid overdose rules here.)" I'd give a PC an extra 5 points for that.

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by martinl

Additions should probably have a cost modifier based on lethality.

• Caffeine addition probably won't ever kill you.
• Sugar addiction will probably take decades to kill you.
• Lethal alcohol overdose is not rare and alcohol intoxication often leads to lethal accidents.

Above this line there's probably no modifier for the assumed GURPS adventuring lifestyle.

However.

Modern street opioids are probably something like: "Roll 3d, on a 6 or less you got free extra fentanyl. Make a HT roll. (Insert opioid overdose rules here.)" I'd give a PC an extra 5 points for that.

On the other hand, alcohol is one of the few addictions where cold turkey withdrawal can kill you - you might wish heroin withdrawal would kill you, but it almost never does ... but a go of DTs can cause a fatal seizure pretty frequently.
Something to remember before setting off on your wilderness adventure...

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

On the other hand, alcohol is one of the few addictions where cold turkey withdrawal can kill you - you might wish heroin withdrawal would kill you, but it almost never does ... but a go of DTs can cause a fatal seizure pretty frequently.
Something to remember before setting off on your wilderness adventure...

I've heard two theories on this. One is that the body, in response to basically being pumped full of a depressant 24/7, amps up everything to try to get back to something approaching normal, then when the depressant is gone it's still amped up and you wind up with a stroke, heart attack, or similar.

The other is that the withdrawal hallucinations are so bad (and from what I've heard they can be pretty awful) the person basically dies from fear (adrenaline overdose).

You typically need to get pretty heavy into drinking, and sustain it for a good long while, for those to happen, however. Although I think once a person has previously become dependent on alcohol, they can regain dependency fairly quickly.

[Pursuivant]

Previous answers to the OP's question give the right answer per RAW, but the costs of severe addictions/alcoholism are badly underpriced if you compare the point cost to the cost of stat losses from Afflictions due to drug/alcohol use.

The Addiction & Alcoholism disads go back to GURPS 1E and haven't been substantially changed in 30 years. They are, at best, a simplification of addictions. They also assume that the disad leaves PCs functional enough to go on adventures with exact effects of the addiction mostly up to the GM.

Alcoholism should have been folded into Addiction with the -5 point Insidious enhancement in a later edition of GURPS. It's chemically and psychologically not that different from other addictions, albeit with a chance of death due to overdose or withdrawal from severe alcoholism. Rolls to resist Alcoholism should be decoupled from Will like other self-control rolls.

The "Insidious" enhancement isn't psychologically valid, but presumably reflects the fact that alcohol use is ubiquitious in most cultures, was historically necessary for survival in some cases, and that in modern society alcohol and alcohol references are pervasive.

As to modified point costs, say that you're a drunk who manages to just stay Drunk (-2 to IQ and DX, -4 to Self-Control Rolls) for 4 hours a day, with an equivalent amount of time spent Tipsy (-1 to IQ & DX, -2 to Self-Control Rolls) as you build up to peak drunk and recover. (Alcohol is eliminated from the body at the rate of approximately 1 "drink" per hour, so if you're 4 drinks past Tipsy, it's going to take you 4 hours to come down to that level). That's -80 points in reduced stats, plus -4 points in Quirks or limited reduced Will for the reduced self-control for Drunk. Halve effects and point costs for Tipsy.

Applying limitations for advantages to disadvantages is tricky, but the Accessibility limitation seem appropriates as is. The Resistible (set at a level equal to Will) and Trigger limitations would need to be reworked as enhancements, as long as they don't reduce total disad cost above its base point cost. At minimum, however, the condition will have a -80% limitation.

DX -2, IQ -2, -4 to Self-Control [-84 point base] (Limitations: Accessibility (1/8 of the time), -80%. Enhancements: Resistible (12-), Trigger (Alcohol Consumption, Very Common, Addictive)*) [-21]

DX -1, IQ -2 to Self Control [-42 point base] (Enhancements/Limitations: As above) [-11]

Total cost is -32 points.

*"Insidious" is built into the Very Common Trigger modifier.

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I've heard two theories on this. One is that the body, in response to basically being pumped full of a depressant 24/7, amps up everything to try to get back to something approaching normal, then when the depressant is gone it's still amped up and you wind up with a stroke, heart attack, or similar.

The other is that the withdrawal hallucinations are so bad (and from what I've heard they can be pretty awful) the person basically dies from fear (adrenaline overdose).

You typically need to get pretty heavy into drinking, and sustain it for a good long while, for those to happen, however. Although I think once a person has previously become dependent on alcohol, they can regain dependency fairly quickly.

Apparently it's sort of like the first theory, but more complicated and involving the enzymes involved in neurotransmission - they get used to having ethanol with everything, and when that's taken away it takes a while to adjust back - in that time you can get the sort of signal errors that cause seizures. It's usually a seizure messing with the heart rhythm or respiratory system that causes death.

Apparently the hallucinations are a separate thing and can occur without DTs if you've done enough damage to your brain in an attempt to pickle it.

Do we also need a modifier for those addictions where you built up a tolerance (generally CNS depressants)? So the longer you're addicted, the bigger dose you need to take ...?