[F] Vampire Mage spells are skills or techniques?

[Leon]

Hi folks! I come to you for help to understand how Blood Magic from Vampire Mage template works, what i'm failing to understand. Actually, just this part in particular:

"Their spells (...) require study, or spell research based on Ritual Magic (Vampiric Blood Magic). Each spell is a separate skill." (Fantasy, p. 168)

This means that Vampire Mage spells are purchased in the normal way but it's skill level is based on Ritual Magic skill instead IQ? Because if is it, i find very awkward an skill to be based on another (when techniques that should be based on skills), rather than being based on attribute, Per or Will. And if Vampire Mage spells are techniques based on Ritual Magic, why then the book says "Each spell is a separate skill", also not talking about its difficulty level and default reducer?

I know Ritual Magic as an alternative magic system (Basic, p. 242), but it hasn't anything to do with it, right?

I came straight from the large brazilian group of GURPS discussion because no one there knew for sure how to solve this problem. That's why you must forgive my english. Thank you all in advance.

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by Leon

Hi folks! I come to you for help to understand how Blood Magic from Vampire Mage template works, what i'm failing to understand. Actually, just this part in particular:

"Their spells (...) require study, or spell research based on Ritual Magic (Vampiric Blood Magic). Each spell is a separate skill." (Fantasy, p. 168)

This means that Vampire Mage spells are purchased in the normal way but it's skill level is based on Ritual Magic skill instead IQ?

What it's saying is that instead of the usual Ritual Magic, where you have the basic RM skill as a prerequisite for a college/path skill which then has techniques, Ritual Magic (Vampire Blood Magic) simply has a skill for each spell with no techniques. The individual spell skills will be IQ/VH and default to Ritual Magic (Vampire Blood Magic) at -6 as per usual Ritual Magic rules.

[johndallman]

Ok, something seems wrong with the RAW here, and the errata are silent on the subject. I can see two ways to handle it:

The first is to learn spells as skills based on IQ+Magery, and use Ritual Magic (Vampiric Blood Magic) as the skill for researching spells. This is workable. Casters who learn spells-as-skills don't usually need a Ritual Magic skill, but requiring one as a balance for not needing prerequisite spells makes some sense.

The second is to use the Ritual Magic system from B.242, based on Ritual Magic (Vampiric Blood Magic), with spells as techniques, rather than skills, based on RM(VBM). That only requires assuming a one-word error in Fantasy.

What I can't tell is which (if either) of these was the original intent, although hopefully the author will remember.

[Gnome]

Originally Posted by Leon

Hi folks! I come to you for help to understand how Blood Magic from Vampire Mage template works, what i'm failing to understand. Actually, just this part in particular:

"Their spells (...) require study, or spell research based on Ritual Magic (Vampiric Blood Magic). Each spell is a separate skill." (Fantasy, p. 168)

This means that Vampire Mage spells are purchased in the normal way but it's skill level is based on Ritual Magic skill instead IQ? Because if is it, i find very awkward an skill to be based on another (when techniques that should be based on skills), rather than being based on attribute, Per or Will. And if Vampire Mage spells are techniques based on Ritual Magic, why then the book says "Each spell is a separate skill", also not talking about its difficulty level and default reducer?

I know Ritual Magic as an alternative magic system (Basic, p. 242), but it hasn't anything to do with it, right?

I came straight from the large brazilian group of GURPS discussion because no one there knew for sure how to solve this problem. That's why you must forgive my english. Thank you all in advance.

I think Blood Magic spells are still based on IQ+Magery, it's just that

a) They have no prerequisites but are instead selected from a GM-determined list, and

b) In order to learn a new spell, the vampire mage has to research and study that spell. Ritual Magic (Vampiric Blood Magic) is the skill needed to successfully do this research. Once the GM has determined that you have successfully researched/studied the spell, your skill level with that spell will be based on IQ+Magery in the usual way.

At least, that's my interpretation...

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Gnome

b) In order to learn a new spell, the vampire mage has to research and study that spell. Ritual Magic (Vampiric Blood Magic) is the skill needed to successfully do this research. Once the GM has determined that you have successfully researched/studied the spell, your skill level with that spell will be based on IQ+Magery in the usual way.

Right. Exactly.

The wording is important. It says, "or spell research based on Ritual Magic (Vampiric Blood Magic)." The phrase "based on Ritual Magic" is a modifier attached to "spell research"; it only describes spell research. Rereading the entire section, I don't see anything that makes it apply more broadly.

[Railstar]

It means that you use the Ritual Magic (Vampiric Blood Magic) skill for spell research - the same way an ordinary wizard would use the Thaumatology skill. That is all.

And I *think* that a vampire has to use the rules for spell research whenever he wants to learn a new spell; he can't learn them the easy way (book/scroll/teacher) - developing the new ability probably involves complex blood rituals and experiments.

[Leon]

Actually, in "Vampire Mage" (Fantasy, p. 112), there is it too:

"A trained vampire mage has the skill of Ritual Magic (Vampiric Blood Magic) and spells based upon it".

It suggests again that spells are not based on IQ. So, it's not just misinterpretation from the other sentence.

I had come to the same two solutions of johndallman.

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by Railstar

And I *think* that a vampire has to use the rules for spell research whenever he wants to learn a new spell; he can't learn them the easy way (book/scroll/teacher) - developing the new ability probably involves complex blood rituals and experiments.

The quoted part in the OP includes the "study, or spell research" bit from the text about getting new VBM spells. Study includes being tutored or reading a spellbook.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Ok, something seems wrong with the RAW here, and the errata are silent on the subject. I can see two ways to handle it:

The first is to learn spells as skills based on IQ+Magery, and use Ritual Magic (Vampiric Blood Magic) as the skill for researching spells. This is workable. Casters who learn spells-as-skills don't usually need a Ritual Magic skill, but requiring one as a balance for not needing prerequisite spells makes some sense.

The second is to use the Ritual Magic system from B.242, based on Ritual Magic (Vampiric Blood Magic), with spells as techniques, rather than skills, based on RM(VBM). That only requires assuming a one-word error in Fantasy.

What I can't tell is which (if either) of these was the original intent, although hopefully the author will remember.

Although handy, these two ways out are not perfect, i must say. The first (that i still prefer), because "to be based on" in the book is more than just a "skill for researching spells". The second, because requires assuming, actually, a two-word error in Fantasy, besides assuming and modifying a bit too the Ritual Magic System. So we have to admit that the confusion lies with the book, not with any possible interpretation.

[Nereidalbel]

Blood Magic spells are IQ-based skills that default to Ritual Magic -6, and you buy them up from there once you've studied them enough to put points into them.