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Old 05-30-2014, 08:32 PM   #1
Winters
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default [Supers] Making a Marvel-616 Asgardian archer

Hey guys,

I'm helping a friend make an Asgardian character for a supers game themed on the Marvel-616 universe. The Marvel wikia has been very helpful in providing a lot of the stats to work from and I'm pretty happy with it so far, but the strength has me stuck.

Please forgive my ramblings; I want to explain my thought process!

The Marvel wikia mentions that a typical Asgardian guy can lift (press) about 30 tons (short, not metric) under optimal conditions; to be able to do this without too much trouble the character would need ST! 193, but we can infer from the use of the word 'optimal' that ST! 150 is more appropriate, and the Lifting skill can be used to make up the difference

Given how tough Asgardians are meant to be, it might be appropriate to actually buy ST 150 and get the extra HP, but that's a bit expensive.

Instead, let's use Super-Effort:
  • ST+11/+150 (Super-Effort, +300%) [440]
I don't want him to have expend fatigue all the time. I know that there is a rule in Supers that allows you to remove the fatigue cost, but I'm not sure how to add it. Do I add Cosmic and Reduced Fatigue Cost to the ST itself, or to the Super-Effort modifier?
  • ST+11/+150 (Cosmic: Can Take Reduced Fatigue Cost, +50%; Reduced Fatigue Cost, +20%; Super-Effort, +300%) [517]
    or
  • ST+11/+150 (Super-Effort (Cosmic: Can Take Reduced Fatigue Cost, +50%; Reduced Fatigue Cost, +20%), +510%) [671]
Sorry if that's a really dumb question, but it seems to me that it's not the ST itself that costs fatigue, but the Super-Effort modifier, and thus that's the bit that needs to be altered.

Anyway, next question: what's the best way to handle weapons for very high ST characters? In this particular case, he'd like to use a bow and carry an Asgardian shortsword (both presumably made from some nice Asgardian materials), thus they should be appropriate for a race of very strong people.

On first glance, a bow could have it's ST value set as normal and derive it's damage in the usual manner, but I'm worried that may be a trap and that I might have missed something.

As for a shortsword, I looked up PK's rules for heavier weapons and gave it a go, but I felt that the shortsword didn't end up doing as much damage as I would have expected (maybe I did the math wrong through!).

Would it be easier to just make the weapons as Innate Attacks with Accessibility requirements? Is it okay to just raise the ST value of a weapon, provided that it comes from Asgard?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 05-30-2014, 10:14 PM   #2
Gedrin
 
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Default Re: [Supers] Making a Marvel-616 Asgardian archer

The Asgardians can make a hammer that no one can lift but someone who meets a certain moral criteria, so yeh...they can make a sword that's just generally heavy.
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Old 05-31-2014, 08:30 AM   #3
Phantasm
 
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Default Re: [Supers] Making a Marvel-616 Asgardian archer

The way I did it with thrice-dense Asgardian matter is to triple the weight of the weapon without affecting Reach or anything like that and then recalculate the MinST based on the new weight using LTC2:15-16.

As for the "lift (press)", I tend to treat that as a "two-handed lift", BL * 8. 30 tons == 60,000 lbs; SQRT(60,000 / 8 * 5) becomes ST 193.6, or ST 194. Like you, I figured an average ST 170 would suit the usual folks.

Here's my Asgardian God template. Feel free to use it.

575 points
Attribute Modifiers: ST +9 [90].
Languages: Old Norse (Native) (Native Language) [0].
Advantages: Appearance (Attractive) [4]; Extended Lifespan 5 (32) [10]; Immunity to Disease [10]; Injury Tolerance (Damage Reduction, /3 (Limited: Crushing Attacks, -40%)) [45]; Super ST +11/+150 [440].
Perks: Alcohol Tolerance [1].
Disadvantages: Low TL -5 [-25].


A few things: They're slightly stronger than the thrice-dense matter would indicate; knock ST down to 17 for the racial average if you want them to fit the average rather than the heroic average. The Injury Tolerance is also meant to represent their toughness while keeping the "likely to be killed by a sword in the gut" by making it Crushing Only.

Hope this helps.
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Old 05-31-2014, 09:36 AM   #4
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Default Re: [Supers] Making a Marvel-616 Asgardian archer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winters View Post
I don't want him to have expend fatigue all the time. I know that there is a rule in Supers that allows you to remove the fatigue cost, but I'm not sure how to add it. Do I add Cosmic and Reduced Fatigue Cost to the ST itself, or to the Super-Effort modifier?
Personally, I don't allow reduced Fatigue Cost on Super-Effort. If my players want to be able to use Super Strength every turn, I suggest that they buy Very Fast Regeneration (Fatique Only +0%) (100).

If they don't want to be tireless in other areas of their lives, then:

Very Fast Regeneration (Fatigue Only +0%, Super Strength Only -40%) (60)
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Old 05-31-2014, 02:13 PM   #5
Winters
 
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Default Re: [Supers] Making a Marvel-616 Asgardian archer

Thanks for the replies!

I like your template, tbrock1031. It's pretty much what I have so far.

Aesir23, why don't you allow cosmic + reduced fatigue cost? Your method using regeneration actually seems cheaper.

The LTC2:15-16 rules work well for a simple case of tripled weight, and cover non super-effort ST nicely, but I'm not sure how to apply them to a character that is always super strong.

For arguments sake, let's imagine that the character has the cosmic and reduced fatigue modifier, effectively making them ST! 160 all the time. My questions are:

a) How exactly are the modifiers applied? To the ST, or to the Super-Effort modifier, and why?
b) Is there a RAW way to give them ST appropriate equipment weapons?
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Old 06-01-2014, 10:29 AM   #6
Phantasm
 
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Default Re: [Supers] Making a Marvel-616 Asgardian archer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winters View Post
b) Is there a RAW way to give them ST appropriate equipment weapons?
I asked about this some time back. Sadly, there is no RAW modifier to the weapon to make them Super ST-appropriate without jacking the weight of the weapon to insane levels. Most of the ancient Norse Mythology weapons that would be used at such strength levels are likely going to be Named Possessions, such as Mjolnir, Gungnir (Odin's spear), and a few others (in the MU, Brunhilde the Valkyrie's Dragonfang would probably be among them, although it was gifted to her by Dr. Strange).

However, if you want them to pick up any uru/Asgardian iron weapon and use it at Super ST levels, you may want to consider having that as a materials modifier to the weapon (though I'm not sure what a good CF should be), or use a new Imbuement skill. I came up with one (untested) in post 17 of the linked thread; never did get feedback on it or a chance to playtest it.

If it's a unique weapon, statting the weapon as an Innate Attack with Gadget modifiers seems to be the general consensus for the "RAW" way to do it.
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Old 06-01-2014, 10:44 AM   #7
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Default Re: [Supers] Making a Marvel-616 Asgardian archer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winters View Post
Aesir23, why don't you allow cosmic + reduced fatigue cost? Your method using regeneration actually seems cheaper.
Cheaper, (sometimes) but different. They're technically still spending the Fatigue, and are can be worn down if they're spending fatigue on more than just Super-Strength, if they're being targeted with Fatigue Attacks, etc...

I guess it just seems cleaner to me then using a Cosmic Rule Exemption.
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:28 PM   #8
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: [Supers] Making a Marvel-616 Asgardian archer

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbrock1031 View Post
A few things: They're slightly stronger than the thrice-dense matter would indicate; .
Asgardian heroes are far stronger than even triple human weight would indicate.

See Sif and her airborne adventures on the SHIELD tv show. She not only held on when she was blown out of an airplane at full speed she climbed back in hand over hand. I'd make that BL greater than body weight as a minimum. Perhaps ST50.

That's probably enough to do the stunts with cars seen on film. You don't necessarily need to go all the way to the Official Handbook levels.

The cheap way to deal with the minSt issue with weapons is to get a Rules Exemption Perk as per Power-Ups2 p.20.
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Old 06-02-2014, 09:01 AM   #9
Phantasm
 
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Default Re: [Supers] Making a Marvel-616 Asgardian archer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Asgardian heroes are far stronger than even triple human weight would indicate.

See Sif and her airborne adventures on the SHIELD tv show. She not only held on when she was blown out of an airplane at full speed she climbed back in hand over hand. I'd make that BL greater than body weight as a minimum. Perhaps ST50.

That's probably enough to do the stunts with cars seen on film. You don't necessarily need to go all the way to the Official Handbook levels.

The cheap way to deal with the minSt issue with weapons is to get a Rules Exemption Perk as per Power-Ups2 p.20.
My original post was actually referencing the BL of the template vs the BL of someone of the appropriate "gravity". Asgardian matter is three times as dense as Midgard/Earth's, which means that the BL of the average Asgardian has to be thrice as much as the average mortal human just to move things around as effortlessly. Reverse-engineering the ST from that BL grants an average ST 17. The template has ST 19. (In my own works, I then reverse-engineer the weight from the ST/HP score, as opposed to some of the screwball numbers the OHOTMUDEs can give.)

Also, I must note that the template does not differentiate between Asgardian men and Asgardian women. I don't have my OHOTMUDEs on hand right now, but IIRC the men averaged a bench-press of 35 tons and the women a bench-press of 25 tons (Sif, being a shieldmaiden, is stronger than the average woman, on par with the average male warrior).
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"But mom, I don't wanna go back in the dungeon!"

The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project A-G, N-Z, and S-Z, and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation.
Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting
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Old 06-02-2014, 09:35 AM   #10
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: [Supers] Making a Marvel-616 Asgardian archer

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbrock1031 View Post
Asgardian matter is three times as dense as Midgard/Earth's, which means that the BL of the average Asgardian has to be thrice as much as the average mortal human just to move things around as effortlessly. Reverse-engineering the ST from that BL grants an average ST 17. The template has ST 19. ).
Do you think ST19 is far more than ST17? Do you think it is adequate to perform superhuman athletic feats with a 400 to 700 lb body?

If Captain America has ST20 then Asgardians have far more than ST 19.
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