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Old 11-23-2011, 01:26 AM   #201
jason taylor
 
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Default Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)

The Emperor's Eye: The Official Magazine of the IISS

Maintained by the personal office it provides humor, stories, and such like for serving scouts. One of the favorite sections is the "declassifieds" which comes from actual tales and records from serving scouts decades before, that have recently been reduced in security level to the point where ordinary citizens are allowed to read. Some writings in the Emperors Eye have been granted status alongside the finest Imperial literature.

It being impossible to maintain one Imperium wide issue, there is one for each subsector. The staff are usually retired scouts, and the Magazine is maintained by scouts and their families. However this is no rule and many non-scouts have contributed, including Noble Patrons.

The Emperor's Eye of Lunion and The Forkost Bistand: magazine of the Confederation Patrol, regularly exchange articles and letters to each other's editors of varied amiabilty. This is idealistically described as a gentlemanly respect between professionals on opposing sides and there is something to that. In fact though, it is not widely known but the Lunion IISS often acts as an ally of the Patrol. Though their stereotypical relation is of pickets stalking each other, the mutual needs often requires them to cooperate in the sharing of intelligence about local disorder and occasionally engage in a joint covert intervention.
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:36 AM   #202
combatmedic
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Default Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)

Is the EE usually distributed in print or electronic form? Does that vary a lot by subsector?
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:43 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by combatmedic View Post
Is the EE usually distributed in print or electronic form? Does that vary a lot by subsector?
Probably in e-form. Most publications would by this time. There are probably also print editions, perhaps for collectors. The Sylea EE is unique in being in print as that is for Capital where everything is expected to be more formal.

The EE would have to vary a lot by subsector. At the same time there would be some effort at standarized format.
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:47 AM   #204
Hans Rancke-Madsen
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
The Emperor's Eye: The Official Magazine of the IISS

Maintained by the personal office it provides humor, stories, and such like for serving scouts. One of the favorite sections is the "declassifieds" which comes from actual tales and records from serving scouts decades before, that have recently been reduced in security level to the point where ordinary citizens are allowed to read. Some writings in the Emperors Eye have been granted status alongside the finest Imperial literature.
Good one[*]. You ought to put it on the Traveller Wiki. Or permit me to do it, if you don't want to do it yourself.
[*] And completely canon-compatible too! ;-)
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It being impossible to maintain one Imperium wide issue, there is one for each subsector. The staff are usually retired scouts, and the Magazine is maintained by scouts and their families. However this is no rule and many non-scouts have contributed, including Noble Patrons.
Why would it be impossible to maintain an Imperium-wide publication? Or are you saying it's highly impractical to maintain one single publication for the whole Imperium? I agree completely if it's the second, but I don't see why the head office couldn't maintain an Imperium-wide publication and the sector offices sector-wide publications, as well. Probably mostly a "best of" assembly of articles drawn from the 'daughter' and 'granddaughter' publications.

EDIT: No, not 'granddaughter'. The editor of the Capital EE wouldn't have time to read 300-odd subsector publications. And he'd probably consider anything that the sector editors didn't pick up on to be of little interest.
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The Emperor's Eye of Lunion and The Forkost Bistand: magazine of the Confederation Patrol...
What does 'Forkost Bistand' mean? Is it Icelandic?


Hans

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Old 11-23-2011, 03:29 AM   #205
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Default Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)

I'd like to compliment both the Hawkplant idea (although at first it did bring a flying plant to mind) and the Emperor's Eye

Nice ideas
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Old 11-23-2011, 03:54 AM   #206
Hans Rancke-Madsen
 
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Originally Posted by combatmedic View Post
The IBoR in your universe should like like whatever you wish it to look like.
I don't know what it is about the statement "I haven't given it much thought" that is so hard to grasp.

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Since you ask for suggestions, though:
Thank you very much.

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Article 1.
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
This is an empty statement, but it could be read as subversive. It seems to undermine hereditary rule and the class /nobility system. I don't think the Imperium would use this language.
I don't see why the Imperium should be unable to make empty statements. As for the language, think of it as the language of the Sylean Federation's BoR, as amended the way Cleon I thought was politic. As in, don't <urinate> off large parts of the population by making unnecessary changes to their Bill of Rights. Did Cleon really HAVE to change this statement in order to safeguard the rights and priveledges of the nobility? The Federation's nobles had lived with it for generations.

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Article 2.
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.
The Imperium would not support this idea. If it did, the statement would be ludicrous in the face of the status and power of the nobility and the Imperial Family.
As I pointed out earlier, several of these rights are, in fact, shown to be respected by the Imperium. E.g. no gender discrimination, nobles are equal before the law.

Interpreting this statemént to disallow the existence of hereditary nobles is exactly as reasonable or unreasonable as interpreting the Declaration to disallow inheriting property from your parents, yet I very much doubt the signers saw it that way.

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Article 3.
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
Unless said person is a psi, an Ine Givar sympathizer, or rubs the Emperor the wrong way...
Imperial executives cannot deprive anyone of life, liberty, or security of person without due process of law. I belive that provision crops up in quite a few present-day constitutions without those countries cleaving to them 100%. Why should the Imperium be any different?

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Article 5.
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
I rather doubt this is enforced, if it is a law. Of course, what the standards are is undefined, so maybe this law does exist. IMTU, i could definitely imagine Imperial agents doing some very nasty things to Ine Givar sympathizers or operatives.
I believe agents of present-day powers with pretty much the same provisions in their constitutions (and signatories to international treaties to the same effect to boot) have, on occasion, done some very nasty things to suspected terrorists. Doesn't mean they publically remove those provisions or repeal those treaties. They just weasel around them or plain ignore them. Why should the Imperium be any different?

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Article 6.
Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.
Nope. "Everywhere" includes the member worlds, and so this artcile is wholly incompatible with the Imperial system.
Everywhere the Imperium holds court. Might be rephrased a bit, perhaps "Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere, by the Imperium, as a person before the law."

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Article 7.
All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.
The Emperor is 'equal' before the law with Hans, dirt farmer from Planet Danska IV ? Naw.
Yaw. If the two ever got personally involved in a lawsuit, they would be equal before the law.

Might not happen often enough for the Emperor to worry about it.


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Article 8.
Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.
More interference with member states. Nope.
I'll just make a blanket statement about this particular objection: The Imperium does not undertake to enforce the rights of individual citizens of member worlds. They merely uphold them whenever (and if -- very important qualifier there) an Imperial citizen comes before an Imperial court or administrative instance.

Example: A world has laws giving the head of a family complete control of all members[*]. A family member enters the Imperial Consulate and joins an Imperial organization. The family head demands that his errant child be returned to him. The Imperium tells him to take a hike.
[*] NOT slavery, of course. He can't sell family members. Just has the right to execute them if they display a failure of moral character (like talking back).
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Article 9.
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.
Yeah, right. Psionics Supressions, anyone?
I'll make another blanket statement: The Imperial Bill of Right was promulgated in Year 0 (It might have been amended from time to time, but then again, it might not). Violations (and there certainly were violations by Imperial instances during the Psionic Suppressions[*], even those most of the action was taken by member worlds) at a later date doesn't automatically obviate it.
[*] The tragic fate of the Order of the White Star springs to mind.
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Article 10.
Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.
This may be true at the Imperial level, but the wording is bad. 'Everyone' won't do.
Hence the (quoting from memory) "Subatantially the same" and "with suitable rephrasing" of my original statement.

EDIT: I said "with appropriate amendments" and not "with suitable rephrasing". I meant both amendment like 'human' to 'sophont AND rephrasing to allow the Imperium to leave the internal affairs of member worlds alone.

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Article 11.

[snip]

(2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.
Impossible. It interferes with member worlds' governments in unacceptable ways.
No, it doesn't (see Article 8 above). A new government just isn't going to get an Imperial instance to return fleeing members of the Old Regime by criminalizing their actions retroactively, whereas it might do so if the offense was a crime when it was committed.

EDIT: An Imperial court might prohibit a neighboring world from extraditing such people to their original world on such grounds.
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If you don't see the problem by now, I'll spell it out: EVERYONE. The whole idea of universal human rights clashes with the structure, nature, and fuction of a heterogenous Imperium.
I snipped a bunch of articles because the objection was the same in each case and was refuted under my response to Article 8 above.

Snipped a bunch more for the same reason.


Hans

Last edited by Hans Rancke-Madsen; 11-23-2011 at 04:11 AM.
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Old 11-23-2011, 04:05 AM   #207
Hans Rancke-Madsen
 
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Originally Posted by combatmedic View Post
It sounds as if you now have a better idea of what you IBoR looks like, Hans.
Yes. It's substantially the same as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights with suitable amendments to apply to non-human sophonts and rephrasings to allow the Imperium to leave the internal affairs of member worlds alone.

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Glad I could help you.
I appreciate the effort.


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Old 11-23-2011, 04:09 AM   #208
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I may write up a bullet point description of Capitalonian/Sylean/Imperial laws and customs from MTU.

Last edited by combatmedic; 11-23-2011 at 04:43 AM.
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Old 11-23-2011, 05:03 AM   #209
Hans Rancke-Madsen
 
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Default Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)

Excerpt from Imperial Edict 9 (aka The Imperial Bill of Rights):
Article <last>

Nothing in this Edict may be interpreted as implying for the Imperium any right or obligation to enforce any of these rights withing the jurisdiction of any member world, except as provided for in individual treaties of membership of the Imperium.

Hans

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Old 11-23-2011, 05:19 AM   #210
Hans Rancke-Madsen
 
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Originally Posted by combatmedic View Post
Sounds fine to me. It will no doubt work well IYTU.
If it ever becomes relevant.

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I don't use anything like your IBoR for a number of reasons:

a) It doesn't suit my view of the Imperium's legal structure.

b) It doesn't fit Imperial history as I see it.

c) It tends to imply a certain intellectual zeitgeist for the Imperium, at least in the early centuries, that I just don't use. To whit, I don't use what you have previously called 'Western values' as the baseline. I use Imperial Values, and those are rather different.
No doubt this is all true IYTU.


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