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Old 04-05-2022, 11:48 AM   #1
Rhino
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Default Edged Rapier

If used with Broadsword skill (even as a default from Rapier skill) it appears that the Edged Rapier would not count as a fencing weapon and would thus be able to parry flails. Is this correct?
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Old 04-05-2022, 01:06 PM   #2
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Edged Rapier

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Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
If used with Broadsword skill (even as a default from Rapier skill) it appears that the Edged Rapier would not count as a fencing weapon and would thus be able to parry flails. Is this correct?
It is in mainline Gurps.
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Old 04-05-2022, 01:32 PM   #3
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Default Re: Edged Rapier

Regular GURPS includes a rule to the effect that fencing weapons that are heavy enough to be used with a non-fencing skill are considered substantial enough to parry flails as a normal weapon (whichever skill they are being used with at the time). I don't know if Dungeon Fantasy includes similar ruling, but it would be a reasonable house rule.
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Old 04-07-2022, 11:12 AM   #4
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Default Re: Edged Rapier

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Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
If used with Broadsword skill (even as a default from Rapier skill) it appears that the Edged Rapier would not count as a fencing weapon and would thus be able to parry flails. Is this correct?
The Parry column of the Edged Rapier entry when used with the Broadsword skill (Adventurers page 99) says "0", and not "0F". I think your understanding is correct.
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Old 04-07-2022, 05:28 PM   #5
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Default Re: Edged Rapier

Its the skill that prevents the weapon from parrying a flail, not the weapon itself. So if a weapon is useable with several skills, and one of those skills is not a "fencing" skill, then you can use said weapon to parry flails.
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Old 04-08-2022, 03:22 AM   #6
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Default Re: Edged Rapier

That makes no sense. The reason fencing weapons can't parry flails is that they are thin and flimsy. The skill used doesn't influence blade width.
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Old 04-08-2022, 07:10 AM   #7
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Default Re: Edged Rapier

The edged rapier weighs 3 pounds, which is the same weight as a broadsword. True, it is longer, and thus thinner. But it’s not as if it is “too light” to parry a flail. The designers clearly intend this, since a combatant explicitly can use an edged rapier with the broadsword skill, i.e., as a broadsword (Adventurers, p. 99). Notably, none of the other fencing swords, like the rapier (2.75 lbs), light rapier (2 lbs) or saber (2 lbs) can be used with that skill.

Having recently watched a Matt Easton (scholagladiatoria) video on sword grip lengths, one can imagine that the grip one uses, or the technique used, could affect one’s ability to parry. Therefore, it does make sense that when a combatant uses an edged rapier with the rapier skill,he or she gets the 0F parry ability, whereas when he or she fights with it using the broadsword skill, he or she doesn’t get the +3 retreat bonus (parry of 0 as opposed to 0F), but still can parry a flail.
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Old 04-08-2022, 10:55 AM   #8
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Default Re: Edged Rapier

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Originally Posted by InexplicableVic View Post
The edged rapier weighs 3 pounds, which is the same weight as a broadsword. True, it is longer, and thus thinner. But it’s not as if it is “too light” to parry a flail. The designers clearly intend this, since a combatant explicitly can use an edged rapier with the broadsword skill, i.e., as a broadsword (Adventurers, p. 99). Notably, none of the other fencing swords, like the rapier (2.75 lbs), light rapier (2 lbs) or saber (2 lbs) can be used with that skill.

Having recently watched a Matt Easton (scholagladiatoria) video on sword grip lengths, one can imagine that the grip one uses, or the technique used, could affect one’s ability to parry. Therefore, it does make sense that when a combatant uses an edged rapier with the rapier skill,he or she gets the 0F parry ability, whereas when he or she fights with it using the broadsword skill, he or she doesn’t get the +3 retreat bonus (parry of 0 as opposed to 0F), but still can parry a flail.
Then the question becomes, can my swashbuckler attack with the edged rapier using the rapier skill and then parry a flail using the default broadsword skill?
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Old 04-08-2022, 11:19 AM   #9
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Default Re: Edged Rapier

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Originally Posted by Anders View Post
That makes no sense. The reason fencing weapons can't parry flails is that they are thin and flimsy. The skill used doesn't influence blade width.
Which itself doesn't really make sense in an actual combat weapon. I'm not entirely convinced even for modern sporting equipment. Stick something rigid and strong enough not to break in the path of a flail and I fail to see how it is less effective at preventing it from moving through for being a rapier and not a broadsword blade.

I suspect it's there to have flails remain effective against fencing parries when fencing parries were significantly better than other parries at 2/3 skill (and hence wouldn't be severely downgraded by a penalty that wasn't so big non-fencing weapons wouldn't have a chance at all) and just held on when that went away
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Old 04-08-2022, 11:37 AM   #10
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Edged Rapier

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Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
Then the question becomes, can my swashbuckler attack with the edged rapier using the rapier skill and then parry a flail using the default broadsword skill?
I believe that would require the Form Mastery Perk. It's what ISTR for Spear/Staff tricks.
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