[AtE] Bicycling in the Post-Apocalypse

[kjamma4]

Bike's were put to good use by Nick Andros and Tom Cullen in Stephen King's "The Stand."

M-O-O-N, that spells bike, laws yes.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by MWnRNC

I recently got into a discussion about why bicycles aren't more common in post-apocalyptic fiction

GURPS seems to treat riding a bike as pretty easy...

B180 default to DX-4 w/ "+4 if all you want to do is struggle along without falling" basically means a 50/50 shot without any training for your average DX 10 human.

It's probably an aspect of modern culture (awareness of bicycles, learning about and seeing them used as children, prior to actually testing one out yourself) that we don't all have "Incompetence: Bicycling", because 6 or less to avoid falling off (10-4+4) feels right for a lot of humans. I would imagine a neanderthal who'd never seen a bike to have difficulty like that.

There might even be an IQ-based Bicycling roll to understand "what is a bike for?". Since you do an IQ-4 roll at default to repair bikes with no skill (effectively IQ6 barely sapient) an IQ-8 roll for Incompetence: Bicycling repairs wouldn't even be attemptable (effective skill 2).

B188 Driving is a TL-based skill, surprised Bicycling isn't also. It's a lower TL than Motorcycle but probably just by one level...

[Tyneras]

Originally Posted by Plane

B188 Driving is a TL-based skill, surprised Bicycling isn't also. It's a lower TL than Motorcycle but probably just by one level...

The most complicated bicycle is still orders of magnitude less complicated than various bronze age clockwork systems being built at TL1. The real limiter for the development of the bike is support infrastructure and perceived need. Early roads would be a nightmare and most cities were small enough that there's no particular need.

[CeeDub]

Originally Posted by Plane

B188 Driving is a TL-based skill, surprised Bicycling isn't also.

Bicycles haven't really changed all that much for the past 130+ years. The pennyfarthing and similar abominations are exceptions, and I'd apply an unfamiliarity penalty to those, but generally speaking, if you've seen one bicycle, you've seen them all. I'm fairly certain that if you found a safety-bicycle from 1885 in good condition, you could just mount it and pedal off, no problem.

[dcarson]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

Early roads would be a nightmare and most cities were small enough that there's no particular need.

The start of modern roads was driven by bicycles not cars.

[Luke Bunyip]

Originally Posted by dcarson

The start of modern roads was driven by bicycles not cars.

So... the point, from an AtE perspective is that bicycle paths/bridges are easier to maintain than those for pre End motor vehicle transport.

Heck, a suspension bridge for foot track/bicycles isn't too hard to make if you've got access to decent timber and a blacksmith with iron.

[Black Leviathan]

Bikes are ubiquitous. there's a bike shop in most small towns and even when all of the burly police-grade titanium bikes are lost a Walmart kid's bike still uses standard chains and seats and can be rebuilt for more torque or cargo. Even if bikes are lost completely if you have TL 5-6 technology you effectively have modern biking.

Tires don't last forever but there will be innertubes with decent seals or that can be patched tucked in the back of a Toys-r-Us a generation after the end, because they're innocuous and you can't eat them or defend your home with them. If rubber innertubes are lost, something functional can be substituted with enough determination.

Bikes have limited ability to handle hazardous terrain but still impressive and no matter how badly the cities are shattered there's path through them and chances are it's easier to follow that path on a bike than on a horse. If agriculture is limited and food is scarce for pack animals bikes could be an attractive way of scavenging in a wider circle or patrolling wide territories. The also don't spook if nasty predators are common after the end. They could also be a source of industrial power putting wastelanders to work pumping water or running a generator.


The bigger limiter I can see is cars. If cars survived in any capability then bikes are exhausting and limit how many people can travel, they're less stable and largely have a lesser range. Even if cars only last a year before scavengers can't find gas that's still enough time to get around to any premium scavenging that you'd want to ride across the city for. If gas and cars persist then bikes are for kids. If Gas is rendered inert or car electronics are cooked by EMP then people without bikes are stuck in their neighborhood and the bike becomes the default transportation After the End and their use is preserved through some method or another. You still can't plow a field with a bike so beasts of burden will be ridden but if bikes are preserved and valued they'll always be more simple for getting around.

[Prince Charon]

Also, it is fairly easy to modify a pair of bicycles to produce a quad vehicle that, depending on the modifications, can hold significantly more passengers and cargo. Depending on the scenario, there may be more modified bikes than standard ones.

[kjamma4]

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

Bikes have limited ability to handle hazardous terrain but still impressive and no matter how badly the cities are shattered there's path through them and chances are it's easier to follow that path on a bike than on a horse.

Correct and that includes (up to a point) any remaining railroad lines.

[Plane]

does Basic have rules somewhere on speed riding bicycle, unicycle, skateboard, etc?

closest I can find for self-powered propulsion is B142's mention that wheelchairs have Ground Move equal to 1/4 your ST (not sure lifting or striking)

I had to go to High-Tech to find some... page 230

TL5/6 bikes and TL 6/7 skateboards are EM0.5 and TL7 racing bikes have EM1...

TL8 offroad bikes are back down to 0.5 but no longer road-bound...

I find it hard to believe that skateboards can match everything but a speed bike.... that feels really off. I think their biggest advantage compared to running (aside from energy efficiency) is actually just that you can accelerate downhill.

You're basically running 1 legged when accelerating on flat terrain, and can't accelerate at all when simply standing on the skateboard, relying on momentum to carry you (ie like how you can "coast" on a bike)

B467 "If the operator takes any other maneuver, or is stunned or otherwise inca
pacitated, his vehicle plows ahead with the same speed and course it had on the previous turn."

except... there should probably be some kind of natural deceleration due to friction involved here (no road is perfect). You're only going to get "constant motion with no effort" using a slope to overcome that.

Maybe the proper way to nerf that is to treat you as B141 "Crippled Legs" on the board so that your Basic Move is 50%? Imagine pedaling a bike 1-legged.

B52 in respect to B354 probably assumes flat terrain...

can't really find rules for speed decreasing uphill or increasing downhill...

B407 firing upward/downward might possibly be adapted?

B551 talks about adjusting 'effective' range by relative elevation (1 yard up = +1 yard, 2 yard down = -1 yard) so I was thinking maybe invert that:
if the slope is 45 degrees (horizontal and vertical distance increase at same rate) then you move at half speed (cost of 2 hexes forward to move 1 hex forward)
if the slope is 60 degrees (vertical distance increasing at twice rate of horizontal) then you would get a bonus 2 yards moved forward per 1 you intentionally moved.

This should be able to push you beyond your usual cap of 20% beyond max speed (sprinting) or 50% beyond max (EM5) and so on.

Basically gravity would be "free moved you are forced to take" and to counteract it would require decelerating. B395 would be needed to do that at a faster rate...

Probably "falling" rules could be adapted somehow here to supplement person-propelled and engine-propelled devices. You use more fuel climbing a hill than coasting down it, for example.

B431 has fall distance/velocity (with options to modify at differet gravity). We could probably plug something in about how gravity potential energy is divided at angles...? Physicists plz help.

Is it maybe something like where 90 degree decline is a freefall, 90% of that (-81 degree angle) gives 90% of the fall speed?

Maybe B432 Collision Angle matters?

wheels (aside from doing jumps) are sort of in a "constant fall" state (<1 yard) and constantly succeeding with using "roll with blow" to diminish damage (along with rubber DR against crushing) is one way to think of it...