Combat- Why not contests of skills?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by DreadDomain

So I am a little bit surprise that you believe contest of skills for combat "silly" and that they "make no sense" since you (or maybe Pulver) felt necessary to include just that option.

It isn't the same thing, however. First, it's not random -- you pick a fixed margin ahead of time, in effect setting the "stakes" for the combat. Second, the penalty assessed applies to active defense, not to skill.

[DreadDomain]

Originally Posted by Kromm

It isn't the same thing, however. First, it's not random -- you pick a fixed margin ahead of time, in effect setting the "stakes" for the combat.

Yes, I made that distinction somewhere in one of my posts. If fact, I quite like that it is a conscious choice. More tactical choice to the attacker.

Deceptive attack was a very good addition (at least I don't remember this option in 3e) but it was a necessary one. In fact, Deceptive attack is a given as soon as your effective skill is 18 or higher. I don't see any reason not to use it beyond that point. I am not sure it it is good or bad.

Originally Posted by Kromm

Second, the penalty assessed applies to active defense, not to skill.

Only because GURPS makes a difference between skill and defense. But effectively, the effect is the same.

In any case, like I said, my surprise was in the "silly" and "makes no sense" expletive while mentioning "Deceptive attack" almost in the same breath (:-))

What about range attacks? Is there a way for the attacker to diminish the active defense in that case? If not, the problem remains the same if the defender has a high dodge. I agree though I have a hard time to picture a "deceptive" range attack... Look, it can only be a cinematic rule, something to provide for it in high powered games. I didn't find any in Basic Set 1 or 2.

[S41NT]

I just wanted to say today I got back to this issue and made a very very simple matlab program (LOL) to calculate the probability os an attack hitting (the attacker being successfull and the defender not) considering just the skill difference and the toHit chosen by the attacker (supposing the rest of his skill goes to a deceptive attack.

I don't have a good place to post the pretty 3d surface the script generates, but I will post the maximum possible chance of hiting a blow for each difference in skill :)

The difference is added to the attacker, so +10 means the <attacker skill> is 10 + <defender skill>

Difference :: Best to hit :: probability

-10.0000 8.0000 0.0241
-9.0000 9.0000 0.0349
-8.0000 10.0000 0.0465
-7.0000 9.0000 0.0608
-6.0000 10.0000 0.0810
-5.0000 11.0000 0.1013
-4.0000 10.0000 0.1295
-3.0000 11.0000 0.1619
-2.0000 12.0000 0.1919
-1.0000 11.0000 0.2344
0 12.0000 0.2779
1.0000 13.0000 0.3142
2.0000 12.0000 0.3705
3.0000 13.0000 0.4190
4.0000 12.0000 0.4631
5.0000 13.0000 0.5237
6.0000 14.0000 0.5669
7.0000 13.0000 0.6210
8.0000 14.0000 0.6721
9.0000 15.0000 0.7069
10.0000 14.0000 0.7601


I was a bit affraid of posting this because if it becames common knowledge, the game looses something, cause everybody will allways use the best value. But i thought you experts of this forums could find it interesting. If you think its a bad thing, please tell me and I will erase this table :o)

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by S41NT

I was a bit affraid of posting this because if it becames common knowledge, the game looses something, cause everybody will allways use the best value.

I don't know. Most GMs probably don't show players their NPC opponents' character sheets.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by S41NT

I was a bit affraid of posting this because if it becames common knowledge, the game looses something, cause everybody will allways use the best value. But i thought you experts of this forums could find it interesting. If you think its a bad thing, please tell me and I will erase this table :o)

I wouldn't worry too much - the table suggests that for most skill ranges about 12 is the best, and I suspect that's what most people's gut feeling would've settled on anyway (mine certainly did).

[S41NT]

I guess you are right... And it only goes higher than 15 for HUGE skill difference, like 15 - 20. Which makes sense like you said.

I find it curious that the balance is not in a single contest, but in the combat as a whole. Defending is easier, even if your skill is 4 levels higher (46%). But when you defend, its a LOT easier, with the enemy's best shot having 13% chance of hiting.