Gadgeteer at High (Safetech) TLs?

[Phantasm]

One of my players in my TL 11^ (safetech, no UT nanotech) space opera game was asking about the use of the 25 pt level of Gadgeteer at that TL, and honestly I could not really give an answer. The 50 point level (Quick Gadgeteer) would be useful for decreasing the time of making repairs or last-minute jury-rigs, but I'd probably want to limit it in a manner akin to the "Solder and Duct Tape" -50% limitation from Action 1. In my experience, at TL 11^ - even in a safetech path - there's really not much use for creating devices that are two or more TLs above the setting. I just can't see anyone using the base 25 pt Gadgeteer in this situation.

One other thing I was considering was splitting the Quick effects of Quick Gadgeteer into its own advantage, so that regular creation of tech devices from parts laying around takes less time, but aren't necessarily above the setting's already high TL.

Thoughts?

[Stormcrow]

The main value of Gadgeteer besides jumping two or more Tech Levels is in the much lower penalties on concept and prototype rolls, and you might be able to get away with cheaper equipment. Bugs are a lot less likely to occur.

[ericthered]

Years ago I wrote a blog post about how to use Gadgeteers that aren't allowed to break the world around them (in that case, the Monster Hunters Techie).

Here are some excerpts. I hope it helps! (you don't need the link unless you're interested in Techies specifically):

Customization:
A gadgeteer with inventor! should be able to fiddle with all sorts of options. These tools aren't so much 'better' than existing equipment than 'exactly what we need for the job'. [this might be more relevant in the monster hunting context].

Ultimate Scrounger:
A gadgeteer isn't just for building new stuff. He's also for building restricted equipment of of scraps. The electric pump connected to the gas can and garden hose isn't as good as a flame thrower for damage, but you don't need fancy fuel, can be quickly dissembled to make it legal to the authorities, its cheap, and it can be thrown together quickly.

Robots: Gadgeteers can build [and customize] robots and drones with ease. These are generally best at surveillance and investigation, and will have a fairly high turn over rate. They are fragile, but the point is that it wasn't a human that got smashed....

Traps: Remember the tales of fiendish DM's from that other game who set up elaborate death traps? You have the skill to make this happen, and high tech equipment to work with. Someone still needs to get the [enemy] to walk into the trap, but that's a problem for the [rest of the party] to worry about.

Holdout and Smuggling: The techie is king of getting things under the radar. You need to get past security? The techie can design a gun of all plastic parts and assemble it on the other side. It won't last long, but you had it for those critical 10 shots.

[mlangsdorf]

Gadgeteer covers two related concepts: the Tony Stark inventor, who creates superscience miracles in a cave with a box of scraps, and the MacGuyver manipulator, who kitbashes solutions to his problems from scrounged materials using conventional science and engineering.

Even if the first concept is forbidden in your game, there's still some utility for the guy who can escaped a prison cell by technobabbling some valid DNA samples from nearby dust and convincing the security system he's one of the guards.

[thrash]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Customization:
A gadgeteer with inventor! should be able to fiddle with all sorts of options. These tools aren't so much 'better' than existing equipment than 'exactly what we need for the job'. [this might be more relevant in the monster hunting context].

I wouldn't reject the idea so soon:

Originally Posted by Han

She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid. I've added some special modifications myself.

[Han Solo as a Gadgeteer -- the mind boggles.]

[ravenfish]

One option would be to permit the Gadgeteer to develop versions of the nanotech and so on that's otherwise unavailable in your setting. That could easily be worth 25 points- although it could also easily disrupt the atmosphere you're attempting to create, so use with discretion.

Otherwise, I agree that it would be viable to offer "quick gadgetter minus regular gadgeteer" for 25 points, allowing quick creation of improvised equipment (out of coconuts, if necessary) but not the invention of new technology.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by thrash

I wouldn't reject the idea so soon:

[Han Solo as a Gadgeteer -- the mind boggles.]

Fair enough.



Gadgeteer is extra useful when fighting a monsters with random and bizarre weaknesses your Tech base doesn't acknowledge, but the ability to get exactly what you want is powerful anywhere.



Thinking about it, most race car teams from movies probably have a gadgeteer, even if its just a very limited one.


Thinking about my current game, a lot things my players wanted to do would have been served well by having a gadgeteer on the team.