Different TLs in different fields

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

About airplanes, would they work well under a gravity of 1.5g? Or even higher... Or if the atmosphere was thinner?

It becomes substantially harder, but no plausibly habitable world is going to be worse than Mars

[weby]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

So here's a more down to earth question. Would it be possible to have a society which is TL 8 in every way...except they never invented the airplane wing and are only beginning to experiment with rocketry? I can't see why not.

Early TL 8.. maybe.. a bit of stretch but it is possible to do most of TL 7 tech (not efficient turbines) without computational fluid dynamics and a lot of TL 8 tech.

But Late TL 8/early TL9 like we are now, do require computers everywhere and powerful ones. Once you have those then NOT simulating fluid movements by computer becomes very unlikely. And such simulations would clearly show how to make efficient wings.

Of course there might then be a delay between theory and mass adaptation as it might be labeled "Dangerous experimental technology" and only used by the world militaries in the first few years.

As for rocketry: That is even more unlikely, as much as people liked playing with rockets early on.. but modern intercontinental missiles/space rockets might have not been built if there was not the heavy militarization of rocketry from the 1950s onward. Developing them was extremely expensive. But smaller things like battlefield rockets and such would be extremly likely.

[Donny Brook]

Is there a clear RAW position that defines TL thresholds? Is it knowledge of the principles of the tech, is it existence of samples of the tech, is it pervasive use of the tech, or something else?

[the-red-scare]

Basic Set says:

“Tech level” (TL) is a general rating of a society’s highest achievement in technology (or a certain type of technology). […] Each TL describes a set of technologies that become available after a certain point in time.

So it really comes down to what “highest achievement” and “become available” mean. Given that the major purpose of TLs is to find out what gear is available, it seems logical that it refers to the point at which it should be in sufficient production to be purchasable (whether by individuals, corporations, militaries, or whatever).

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by the-red-scare

Basic Set says:

“Tech level” (TL) is a general rating of a society’s highest achievement in technology (or a certain type of technology). […] Each TL describes a set of technologies that become available after a certain point in time.

So it really comes down to what “highest achievement” and “become available” mean. Given that the major purpose of TLs is to find out what gear is available, it seems logical that it refers to the point at which it should be in sufficient production to be purchasable (whether by individuals, corporations, militaries, or whatever).

That's a very practical analysis, which, barring something official to the contrary, I would adopt.

Turning that to the OP, then, it would seem that fairly wide divergences are possible between categories of technology within a society, based on non-technical constraints. For example, in the Dune universe, advanced computers are perfectly possible, but outlawed.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Is there a clear RAW position that defines TL thresholds? Is it knowledge of the principles of the tech, is it existence of samples of the tech, is it pervasive use of the tech, or something else?

It must be something that is actually put into practice on more than an experimental basis, and something the culture can build for themselves if they have to.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Tom Mazanec

How far can TLs vary in a world in different fields? For example, I can see Caliph's TL in medical sciences and technologies being three TLs behind everything else, given their taboo of mucking with Allah's creation of the human body. But could you have the reverse...TL 11 biotech where everything else if TL 8? Could we have Moon flights where the computers are abaci? What fields depend on others for advancement?

We can't really answer this because since the 19th century / TL 5, all the world's advanced technological regions have been in intense trade and communications with one another. In earlier periods, it was common for the Inca to have suspension bridges or the Chinese to have porcelain or the Franks to have articulated plate armour and for other sophisticated regions to import them or do without. Its hard to say whether the same would be true at TL5+ if we could look at a hundred alternate worlds.

GURPS Classic Low-Tech came up with a number of examples of divergent TL from world history before the 19th century.

After reading a few books on the Soviet space program, Ken Hite has the impression that Soviet aerospace technology was seriously hindered by their lack of good electronic computers.

[whswhs]

In GURPS Low-Tech, we specified that the TL was based on what could commonly be made or purchased. It doesn't count if you've just come up with the idea, or if you've made the prototype, or even if you've debugged it. Once you start selling them, or once the knowhow is dispersed through your society, it's part of the TL.

There's also room for some give in when the boundaries are. Something that came on the market in 1978 could fairly be called "TL8": TL7 people pretty much wouldn't have it, but TL8 people could. Though this has to be a GM judgment call.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by whswhs

There's also room for some give in when the boundaries are. Something that came on the market in 1978 could fairly be called "TL8": TL7 people pretty much wouldn't have it, but TL8 people could. Though this has to be a GM judgment call.

For games in the real 19th and 20th century, its often more helpful to use real dates to decide what is available than TL. But for a question about alternate history and futurism, like this, its useful (also for low-tech games where you don't have time to research Ming technology in detail).

If humans came to live in wildly different environments, or separated by distances which are hard to cross with mater or information, it seems likely that we would see technology diverge again.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

For games in the real 19th and 20th century, its often more helpful to use real dates to decide what is available than TL. But for a question about alternate history and futurism, like this, its useful (also for low-tech games where you don't have time to research Ming technology in detail).

Yes, and in GURPS High-Tech: Electricity and Electronics, I gave dates for prototypes and, where relevant, for production models.