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Old 01-04-2015, 11:20 AM   #1
Shiftkitty
 
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Default Probably A Stupid Question But...

... my brain's not working.

A bunch of angels in vessels hunt down a shedim who is occupying a body. How should they approach? They can't kill the vessel to drive out the shedim and then go after it while it's in celestial form, can they?

Again I apologize if this is a stupid question. I haven't played in awhile and am missing the answer.
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Old 01-04-2015, 02:01 PM   #2
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Default Re: Probably A Stupid Question But...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftkitty View Post
... my brain's not working.

A bunch of angels in vessels hunt down a shedim who is occupying a body. How should they approach? They can't kill the vessel to drive out the shedim and then go after it while it's in celestial form, can they?
Shedim haven't got Vessels, they have hosts, which is the crux of the problem: You can kill the host to force the Shedite into Celestial form, but most angelic Superiors frown on offing innocent humans, even if you are demon hunting. Also, it creates a wicked lot of Disturbance.
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Old 01-04-2015, 03:25 PM   #3
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Default Re: Probably A Stupid Question But...

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Originally Posted by Dalillama View Post
Shedim haven't got Vessels, they have hosts, which is the crux of the problem: You can kill the host to force the Shedite into Celestial form, but most angelic Superiors frown on offing innocent humans, even if you are demon hunting. Also, it creates a wicked lot of Disturbance.
Without researching it, could a Kyriotate possess the host and shove the shedim out?
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Old 01-04-2015, 04:17 PM   #4
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I can't find the rule right now, but IIRC the Kyrio would have to a) have at least as many Forces as the Shedite, and b)beat the Shedite in contest of Wills to eject it.(separate from the roll to possess the host in the first place.)
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Old 01-04-2015, 04:47 PM   #5
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Default Re: Probably A Stupid Question But...

Yes, "host". That's what I meant. So if I was running a game would it be too cruel to put this shedim into the body of a 10 year old girl? Let the angels wrestle with trying not to hurt the girl but having to get that shedim before too much harm is done? Basically, I want to see the guys agonize over the plan. Even in D&D and other games they're very "smash-n-bash" and I want to see them have to think for a change.
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Old 01-04-2015, 04:55 PM   #6
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Yes, "host". That's what I meant. So if I was running a game would it be too cruel to put this shedim into the body of a 10 year old girl? Let the angels wrestle with trying not to hurt the girl but having to get that shedim before too much harm is done? Basically, I want to see the guys agonize over the plan.
That kind of dilemma is a big part of what In Nomine is all about. That's also another reason why angels hate Shedim so bloody much.
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Old 01-04-2015, 06:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: Probably A Stupid Question But...

Depending on the circumstances -- particularly if it's there primarily to corrupt the little girl -- then a good countermeasure might simply be to get all up in its grill. Once a Shedite knows it's made, and especially if a patient angel is consistently hanging around and trying to counteract its temptations, they frequently try to flee to a new host, preferably subtly.

As mentioned before, a Kyriotate can try to possess the girl, forcing a contest of Wills with the Shedite.

A Shedite has limited time in a single body. One option, if anyone has a suitable Role, is to isolate the girl for long enough to run out the clock without giving her opportunities to sin grievously. Depending on her current behavior, this may range from "This star student has been selected for a live-in student experience at (local angelic Tether)!" to a troubled-kids camp. Or, you know, if she's a street urchin with no family, kidnapping. The Shedite will probably clue in quick in that case.
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Old 01-05-2015, 05:32 AM   #8
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Default Re: Probably A Stupid Question But...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalillama View Post
Shedim haven't got Vessels, they have hosts, which is the crux of the problem: You can kill the host to force the Shedite into Celestial form, but most angelic Superiors frown on offing innocent humans, even if you are demon hunting. Also, it creates a wicked lot of Disturbance.
Depending on the brightness and contrast of Shiftkitty's campaign, that might or might not be an issue. Cranking brightness down and contrast up makes a "kill them all, God will know His own" strategy acceptable. (Not a style I'd want to play, but some people like it...)
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Old 01-05-2015, 05:37 AM   #9
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Default Re: Probably A Stupid Question But...

Canon already makes Angels morally gray at best. I have trouble imagining anyone wanting to play a game where evil Angels murder kids to "save" them from just as evil Demons.
Even White Wolf games didn't do that so much. That was for their smaller Black Dog line.
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Old 01-05-2015, 06:34 AM   #10
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Canon already makes Angels morally gray at best. I have trouble imagining anyone wanting to play a game where evil Angels murder kids to "save" them from just as evil Demons.
Even White Wolf games didn't do that so much. That was for their smaller Black Dog line.
"Heroic" Garou would slaughter children to fight the Wyrm, many without hesitation. Red Talons pushed for large scale culling, even genocide against humans (the opening fiction of their tribebook includes a scene where a small girl is killed while using the toilet along with residents of the trailer park she lived in and from the stand point of the Garou wasn't really a crime just the potential exposure was) and the race as a whole once killed humans to keep their population in check. This was the mainstream game not Black Dog and there are similar examples.

Angels in the setting of Supernatural are pretty ruthless and don't hesitate to kill possessed humans in the name of righteousness. Plenty of people play the Supernatural setting and enjoy the show regardless.

And then there's the bible were angels, for example, kill numerous children in Egypt at God's command and many think of that as Holy will and thus righteous.

Allot of people either feel that if its Heaven/God's will that its just or enjoy the moral uncertainty or even horror of a Heaven that, from a human perspective is hard to tell from Hell. Its definitely not to everyone's tastes but there are games and fiction that are that dark with a significant fan base.
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