Hex Map Scales

[Bill_in_IN]

I will first pose a question of board map scale but follow it with some functional discussion and game board scales.

Does anyone see a problem with using 1-inch scale provided that all is adjusted for it.?

The scale of the game maps that come with Melee and Wizard are 1.5 inch from one flat edge of a hex straight to the opposite flat edge. This works nice for the 1 inch square counters whose corners tend to line up near the flat edges of a hex. Also, the Melee and Wizard maps work well for arena battle and the rooms in adventure modules like Death Test and Death Test 2.

However, as I search deep back into my memory banks, I remember that our group had started using 1 inch scaled hex maps for the following reasons.

1. 1-inch hex paper was available at the local game shop in fairly large sheets.
2. It matched well with the 25 mm scale lead/pewter miniatures and their bases.
3. It gave us much more room as the scale of our battles increased.

The main drawbacks were that it was a little small for cardboard counters and the mega-hexes weren't marked. We would count the number of hexes and divide by three which did work.

I have searched the internet and don't find the 1.5 inch pages. They are a variety of sizes with 1-inch being one.

[Skarg]

1" scale was the original edition's map scale. It's also the scale of the Melee & Wizard combined pocket box.

Except for not being able to use the new playmats and counters without printing my own, 1" scale is actually what I prefer to use because:

* It means I get more hexes per table space, so I can fit more action in less table space.
* I have thousands of original-scale TFT counters already.
* I can store more of those counters more easily.
* When making hand-made counters, it's a little less challenging for me to make passable art if it's smaller.
* I'm used to the smaller scale.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by Bill_in_IN

The main drawbacks were that it was a little small for cardboard counters and the mega-hexes weren't marked. We would count the number of hexes and divide by three which did work.

It will be more accurate to divide by 2.5.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Shostak

It will be more accurate to divide by 2.5.

Please explain. Each mega-hex is 3 hexes wide.

Are you correcting for a half-hex of loss along the border of each mega-hex assuming that you are counting the shortest path? If so, I would concur.

I believe that it would still be accurate if you ensure that each count of three were a straight line of 3 hexes thus, representing the full width of one mega-hex. So, the distance would be the shortest path of straight three hex segments. I didn't provide such granularity in my last post.

I think that both would be accurate but I know have something to check out for comparison.

I can see where this discussion can become difficult without maps posted.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Skarg

1" scale was the original edition's map scale. It's also the scale of the Melee & Wizard combined pocket box.

Except for not being able to use the new playmats and counters without printing my own, 1" scale is actually what I prefer to use because:

* It means I get more hexes per table space, so I can fit more action in less table space.
* I have thousands of original-scale TFT counters already.
* I can store more of those counters more easily.
* When making hand-made counters, it's a little less challenging for me to make passable art if it's smaller.
* I'm used to the smaller scale.

I thought that the original was smaller scale. Thanks for vindicating my memory. I thought that I had made a mistake. I'll check out the link.

I would like to make a board that's approximately 4 ft by 4 ft that can mate up with another for an even larger battle. Having mega-hexes marked would be nice.

I was thinking about scaling the counter PDFs down to fit in a 1-inch hex. If you have some additional ones that you don't mind sharing, I would be extremely grateful.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by Bill_in_IN

Please explain. Each mega-hex is 3 hexes wide.

Just run a test on a map with megahexes and randomly select ten paths of various lengths, count the hexes and divide by 3 and also by 2.5 and see which set comes winds up being more accurate on average.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Shostak

Just run a test on a map with megahexes and randomly select ten paths of various lengths, count the hexes and divide by 3 and also by 2.5 and see which set comes winds up being more accurate on average.

That was my plan. Thanks for the verification.

I have been a test engineer for over 30 years. Designing tests and analyzing the data is what I do. However, I have learned that external verification is always good and new details can be taken into consideration as the result of such discussions.

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by Shostak

Just run a test on a map with megahexes and randomly select ten paths of various lengths, count the hexes and divide by 3 and also by 2.5 and see which set comes winds up being more accurate on average.

His point, Bill, is that most lines intersecting with a megahex are not diameters, but chords. I've notice that 2.5 is a pretty good divisor to go from hex to megahex myself.

It would be interesting to find a mathematically correct divisor. I'm pretty sure that 2.5 isn't the best possible divisor, but it's not altogether clear to me how to frame the question so that an answer can be found.

[Steve Plambeck]

In those ancient days of yore, my group found 1" hexes much too large -- we always needed more hexes per foot of table space for our large, outdoor terrain maps.

And we found 3/4" hexes way too small for fitting the 3/4" counters that came with original Melee, Wizard, DT, and the micro-quests. We tried using the 3/4" hex "tiles" that came on the center pages of Advanced Wizard and Advanced Melee. But playing on those was much too cramped.

The perfect compromise was 7/8". All the original 3/4" counters fit perfectly on 7/8" hexes without feeling too crowded.

As luck would have it, back then TSR Hobbies put out giant sheets of hex paper you could find in gaming stores. Anyone remember these? They were 22.5 by 28.5 inches. One side was printed with 15mm hexes, the perfect size for most of the wargaming/large scale battles we also did. But the other side was even better: 22mm hexes. That's only an immeasurable 9/1000 smaller than 7/8. They were expensive for the time at about a buck or two per sheet, but how I wish I'd bought a couple hundred! I only have 1 or 2 of these unused and squirreled away.

Of course they didn't have megahexes, but we never liked megahexes nor felt we needed them. We also counted hexes and divided by 3 for range determinations. The logic there was that it is 3 hexes exactly from the center of any megahex to the center of any adjacent megahex. It even seemed fairer that way. Under RAW, the number of hexes to target can actually vary from 1 to 5 hexes depending on where in their respective megahexes the attacker and target are standing. That always seemed a bit funky. Average 1 and 5, you get 3 - QED :)

We made hundreds of our own counters as time went on, and lots of our own play mats (paper ones) all to the 7/8" hex scale. That makes the new materials that come with Legacy Edition problematic to say the least! The counters and hex tiles are all way too big to be compatible.

I used 7/8" for so long I'd forgotten it wasn't really the original scale!

Dig out your ancient, browning, original Melee and Wizard maps, and you'll discover those were actually 15/16", not 7/8". Faithful to what they are replicating, the Melee and Wizard maps in the Pocket Box edition that came out with Legacy also use 15/16" hexes, as well as 3/4" counters. That was the first thing I opened when I got my Legacy box, and I breathed this huge sigh of relief when I saw the scale hadn't changed. Imagine my chagrin and confusion when I opened the rest of it and found those gigantic counters! I do wish they'd stuck to the original scale.

[Rolando]

In our time and age you can get any size hex printed in almost any size page, with megahex and dots if you want.

any vector drawing program will be able to do it.

If you want I can wipe a page for you in less than half an hour, and I'm sure someone must have done it already.

i just need the size of the hex and the size of the page, plotter printing is cheapish, so you can print the file in bond paper, B/W, in any printing shop.