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Old 07-28-2022, 08:33 AM   #1
Donny Brook
 
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Default Seeking Ally-build flexibiity

Presently building an Ally is restricted in two ways that I would like to get around for a character. First, the minimum value of 25% of the PCs character point total. Second, the automatic advancement of the Ally's point value in proportion to the PC's.

The PC is 150 CP and needs a rat for an ally; a truly remarkable rat, but still with all the disads an animal would have it comes to only about 6 character points. So that's only about a sixth of the CP total a 25% ally could be. Is there a way to pay less for this ally?

Then, there is no plausible ways for the rat to improve as a GURPS character at even a quarter of the pace the PC will. How should the value of the trait be reduced for an Ally the doesn't grow with the PC?
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Old 07-28-2022, 08:39 AM   #2
Aldric
 
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Default Re: Seeking Ally-build flexibiity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
Presently building an Ally is restricted in two ways that I would like to get around for a character. First, the minimum value of 25% of the PCs character point total. Second, the automatic advancement of the Ally's point value in proportion to the PC's.

The PC is 150 CP and needs a rat for an ally; a truly remarkable rat, but still with all the disads an animal would have it comes to only about 6 character points. So that's only about a sixth of the CP total a 25% ally could be. Is there a way to pay less for this ally?

Then, there is no plausible ways for the rat to improve as a GURPS character at even a quarter of the pace the PC will. How should the value of the trait be reduced for an Ally the doesn't grow with the PC?
If it's just a normal rat, why even bother building it as an ally ? If someone sells rats, you could just buy it with cash, otherwise just find yourself a rat and bring it along.
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Old 07-28-2022, 08:50 AM   #3
JulianLW
 
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Default Re: Seeking Ally-build flexibiity

Supers has rules for Allies at lower percentages, and somewhere on Christopher Rice's blog (and, I think, elsewhere) there are numbers for alternate Frequency of Appearance rates.

But the Supers numbers follow a linear regression, so that half of 25% at 1 point would be 12.5% at 0.5 points and, for example, 2.5% would be 0.1 point.

A 16.66% Ally (one sixth of 100%) would cost 0.66 points base, so if such an Ally were available on a 15 or less (multiple of 3), it would be a 2 point Ally:

Ally: Talking Rat! (16.66%/15 or less) [2]
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Old 07-28-2022, 08:50 AM   #4
khorboth
 
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Default Re: Seeking Ally-build flexibiity

The 25% mark is "up to 25%."

The easy way to do this is to simply track progression of the ally and charge more points each time it hits a threshold. It starts out well below 25% of starting, but the points paid are good through that mark. When it's going to pass that, charge for the 50% price. Etc.
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Old 07-28-2022, 08:56 AM   #5
Donny Brook
 
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Default Re: Seeking Ally-build flexibiity

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Originally Posted by Aldric View Post
If it's just a normal rat, why even bother building it as an ally ? If someone sells rats, you could just buy it with cash, otherwise just find yourself a rat and bring it along.
It's a cinematic rat, way better than a normal rat, but confined to a certain level of plausibility.
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Old 07-28-2022, 09:29 AM   #6
Pursuivant
 
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Default Re: Seeking Ally-build flexibiity

There is a Pet perk for small, ordinary animals that sometimes do useful things.

If you want a low point value Animal Ally which can do a few cool things a regular animal cannot, and you're willing to put up with the extra complexity, it's easy to extrapolate point costs for Allies relative to the PC

Code:
Point Total	Cost
5% or less*	0.2
Up to 10%*	0.4
Up to 15%*	0.6
Up to 20%*	0.8
Up to 25%*	1
Up to 50%*	2
Up to 75%*	3
Up to 85%*	4
Up to 100%*	5
Up to 110%	6
Up to 120%	7
Up to 130%	8
Up to 140%	9
Up to 150%**	10
Up to 160%**	12/11†
Up to 170%**	14/12†
Up to 180%**	16/13†
Up to 190%**	18/14†
Up to 200%**	20/15†
+10%†	+1

*Allies built on no more than 100% of the PC’s starting points may also be Dependents. Add the cost of Ally and Dependent together, and treat the combination as a single trait: an advantage if the total point cost is positive, a disadvantage if it is negative.

If the Ally cost is a fractional amount, it is always worth 1 point, although if you also take a very low level Ally as a Dependent, use the actual point cost when figuring the value of the Ally-Dependent combination.

For Ally Groups, apply the usual multipliers for number of allies and frequency of appearance, and percentage modifiers for enhancements and limitations, and round up the final cost to the next-higher whole number of points.

**Allies built on a base character point cost of more than 200% of the PC’s starting points are not allowed; treat such NPCs as Patrons. The GM might also choose to restrict Ally point value to 150% except for familiars and similar entities. Reduce point costs for non-sentient (i.e., IQ 0) Allies.

† The progression extends indefinitely, but only for non-sentient (IQ 0) Allies; each +10% of the PC’s starting points costs a further +1 point.
The Pet perk could be defined as a 5% of PC point cost Ally which appears All The Time (4x cost).

Last edited by Pursuivant; 07-28-2022 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 07-28-2022, 08:46 AM   #7
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: Seeking Ally-build flexibiity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
Presently building an Ally is restricted in two ways that I would like to get around for a character. First, the minimum value of 25% of the PCs character point total.
GURPS Supers has this on p. 68

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
Second, the automatic advancement of the Ally's point value in proportion to the PC's.
GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic introduces the concept of a Static Point Total for the Summoned modifier (which is repriced Ally). If you use that for the rat then it's value would be fixed to starting point totals and not changed. It would be worth -0%.
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Old 07-28-2022, 10:14 AM   #8
Donny Brook
 
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Default Re: Seeking Ally-build flexibiity

Great, Supers p.68 solves the first part very well.

I still need to figure out the fixed cp value bit.

This rule,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic introduces the concept of a Static Point Total for the Summoned modifier (which is repriced Ally). If you use that for the rat then it's value would be fixed to starting point totals and not changed. It would be worth -0%.
, seems wrong. Foregoing future CP growth seems like a substantial loss, worth something, not 0%.
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Old 07-28-2022, 10:29 AM   #9
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: Seeking Ally-build flexibiity

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Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
Foregoing future CP growth seems like a substantial loss, worth something, not 0%.
Call it -50% then
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Old 07-28-2022, 10:58 AM   #10
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Seeking Ally-build flexibiity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
Presently building an Ally is restricted in two ways that I would like to get around for a character. First, the minimum value of 25% of the PCs character point total. Second, the automatic advancement of the Ally's point value in proportion to the PC's.

The PC is 150 CP and needs a rat for an ally; a truly remarkable rat, but still with all the disads an animal would have it comes to only about 6 character points. ?
Hol' up. I'm a gonna stop you right there, and point out that a lot of the disadvantages an animal might be built with for being an animal are actually irrelevant to its value as an ally. For example Social Stigma Animal is actually an advantage when you are using a super-smart talking rodent as a spy or a diversion. It makes them more effective in those roles. A disadvantage that doesn't disadvantage the player character isn't one. Additionally any limitation point limit that applies to the player would normally apply to the players allies.

Additionally, it is true that there's an optional rule in Supers for players who want to play a ten thousand point character with a 250 point government agent for an ally, ie. Wonder Woman. But the minimum value for allies was set for a reason and that reason was just this kind of ally. The applications of a tiny ally with humanlike intelligence that nobody expects are hugely out of proportion to its supposed "point total"
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