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Old 06-03-2022, 07:05 AM   #1
jacobmuller
 
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Default (Basic Set; Low Tech) Slinging things

I'm in a manic phase & at work but
T-bone mentioned Slings in his current Twitter series (well worth a look for all the non-sling things)...
Does GURPS massively underrate them?
Scottish archaeology reckon the lead bullets used by the Romans would've had impact comparable to a 44 magnum.
I can throw to double range sling vs hand. Does double range need x4 velocity? Would that be x4 Damage? Should slings be doing 2xSw pi dam? And they reportedly out ranged bows. Should slings have x20 1/2D range?
I'd love the free time (& brains) to write a
The Deadly Sling article.
I look forward to reading the responses when I get home. TQ
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Old 06-03-2022, 07:52 AM   #2
sir_pudding
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Default Re: (Basic Set; Low Tech) Slinging things

According to this bullets massing 60g were slung at 150 kph.
(1/2)(60g)(150km/h)^2=52 J.
240 gr SJHP Remington has kinetic energy of 1005 J (190 mm barrel).
So probably not.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 06-03-2022 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 06-03-2022, 08:10 AM   #3
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Default Re: (Basic Set; Low Tech) Slinging things

IDK about that. A baseball weights 5 to 5 1⁄4 ounces (142 and 149 g) and can be thrown at over 90 mph (145 kph). Surely a sling can throw a baseball at higher speeds.
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Old 06-03-2022, 08:19 AM   #4
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Default Re: (Basic Set; Low Tech) Slinging things

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnhcorey View Post
IDK about that. A baseball weights 5 to 5 1⁄4 ounces (142 and 149 g) and can be thrown at over 90 mph (145 kph). Surely a sling can throw a baseball at higher speeds.
Well, slings were used to throw rocks. Baseballs have special contidions on aerodinamics and materials that rocks do not posses, which certanly increases it's speed capacity when compared to rocks, so I would say, certanly it would go faster
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Old 06-03-2022, 08:27 AM   #5
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Default Re: (Basic Set; Low Tech) Slinging things

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Well, slings were used to throw rocks. Baseballs have special contidions on aerodinamics and materials that rocks do not posses, which certanly increases it's speed capacity when compared to rocks, so I would say, certanly it would go faster
Sling bullets were specially designed to increase damage, range, and accuracy. Sling bullets were thrown side-ways, not long-ways like a gun bullet. Their back rotation causes them to generate lift, which increased their range and made them more accurate.
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Old 06-03-2022, 08:31 AM   #6
sir_pudding
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Default Re: (Basic Set; Low Tech) Slinging things

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Originally Posted by shawnhcorey View Post
IDK about that. A baseball weights 5 to 5 1⁄4 ounces (142 and 149 g) and can be thrown at over 90 mph (145 kph). Surely a sling can throw a baseball at higher speeds.
Probably not at 660 km/h.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 06-03-2022 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 06-03-2022, 08:16 AM   #7
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: (Basic Set; Low Tech) Slinging things

Slings w/lead bullets already do more base damage than arrows. For ST 10 Regular Bow users it's 1D-1 Imp v. 1D+1 P. Range is 150/200 v. 120/200. Perks and Arm ST etc could change all of this.

However, the speculation that slings might outrange bows goes back to clasical armies where the slingers were placed behind the archers. This could have had a number of reasons why though, ranging from slings being better at arcing trajectories to archers having more armor or more discipline to the social status of the typical archer v. slinger.

That slings disappeared from organized forces long before bows did might suggest that Gurps overestiamtes their effectiveness.

Finally, 2x range might require 2x velocity and that require 4x KE but 2x damage already requires that. Wth those sT10 guys from the 1st paragraph already doing 2.66 for arrows and 4.5 for lead bullets (with slings improving faster than arrows for greater sT) this is probably already covered.
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Old 06-03-2022, 09:10 AM   #8
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Default Re: (Basic Set; Low Tech) Slinging things

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
According to this bullets massing 60g were slung at 150 kph.
(1/2)(60g)(150km/h)^2=52 J.
240 gr SJHP Remington has kinetic energy of 1005 J (190 mm barrel).
So probably not.
240 gr is around 15.55 g, so that indicates a velocity of around 114 m/s (compared to the sling's 41.7 m/s). Sometimes when people compare "impacts" they are comparing momentum rather than kinetic energy. In that case, the momentum of the sling bullet would be 0.06 kg * 41.7 m/s = 2.5 kg*m/s, while the momentum of the .44 would be 0.01555 kg * 114 m/s = 1.8 kg*m/s, which would indeed put the "impact" of a sling stone above that of a .44 magnum. But higher momentum doesn't result in higher damage in GURPS - GURPS damage (and injury) is typically based more on kinetic energy than momentum.
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Old 06-03-2022, 11:14 AM   #9
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: (Basic Set; Low Tech) Slinging things

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]. In that case, the momentum of the sling bullet would be 0.06 kg * 41.7 m/s = 2.5 kg*m/s, while the momentum of the .44 would be 0.01555 kg * 114 m/s = 1.8 kg*m/s, which would indeed put the "impact" of a sling stone above that of a .44 magnum..
A thrown baseball has more momentum than even rifle bullets but I know which "impacts" I'd rate as more survivable.
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Old 06-03-2022, 11:31 AM   #10
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Default Re: (Basic Set; Low Tech) Slinging things

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
A thrown baseball has more momentum than even rifle bullets but I know which "impacts" I'd rate as more survivable.
Momentum gives you knockback, but kinetic energy gives you internal structural damage.
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