MA: Telegraphic, Committed with a pistol?

[Azinctus]

Can you make a Telegraphic Attack or a Committed Attack with a pistol in close combat or mêlée?

[ham2anv]

If you are pistol whipping, yes. Shooting, no. Telegraphic Attack is specifically a Melee Attack Option, and Committed Attack says "the fighter must use a ready melee attack".

[vicky_molokh]

As an optional rule, I'd allow it in mêlée range only.

[talonthehand]

Since All-Out Attack (determined)with a ranged weapon is already only +1, I wouldn't allow committed, but telegraphic might be an option.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by talonthehand

Since All-Out Attack (determined)with a ranged weapon is already only +1, I wouldn't allow committed, but telegraphic might be an option.

I'd say not. The equivalent of Telegraphic, Committed for Ranged attacks is likely Braced, Determined (for +1 each).

[Icelander]

As a special rule, I treat attacking with guns in melee range like melee attacks. All-Out Attack (Determined) provides +4 and not +1 and you can Telegraphic Attack (by placing the muzzle on the target).

Bulk penalty applies, of course.

But if I did not do this, it would be impossible for an untrained shooter to kill someone execution-style. And a lot of real world murderers can't shoot worth a damn.

[ham2anv]

Originally Posted by Icelander

But if I did not do this, it would be impossible for an untrained shooter to kill someone execution-style. And a lot of real world murderers can't shoot worth a damn.

You shouldn't require a roll to execute someone. They put a gun to the poor soul's head, pull the trigger, and he dies.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by ham2anv

You shouldn't require a roll to execute someone. They put a gun to the poor soul's head, pull the trigger, and he dies.

What if he's a PC?

And is hoping to Dodge at the last time?

Then it matters a great deal what the to-hit roll is and whether or not it is Telegraphic.

[Azinctus]

I used both in a game last night. I told the GM it was ok but then I had a doubt. In the cold light of day I read the "melee attack" and thought "oops."

It was WH40K I had a Las Pistol that couldn't penetrate my enemies' armour. Standing off and bracing, aiming and determined wasn't working - their guns could penetrate my armour.

So I ran at my enemy knocked him down in a Flying Tackle then tried to shove the pistol in his face and shoot him. The bonus to his dodge from Telegraphic was offset by the negative for being prone and the All Out Attack. I was a little sketchy on the exact modifiers. But I rolled low and he rolled high so no one was in any doubt. But now I'd like to be clearer on how this works.

'A "ranged attack" is any attack with a weapon used at a distance...' (B372)

"You can make a melee using any ready melee weapon..." (B369)

The definitions of melee and ranged are not exactly cast iron. The downside of Telegraphic is simply to increase defences - completely applicable in the case of shooting a pistol in melee since they can parry. Committed is less clear since parrying with a pistol isn't really a normal option suffering a penalty to it is dodgy. All Out Attack (Determined) seems to make sense to me. I'm shooting the guy and letting him hit me if he lives. Should be worth more than the duelist standing a way off and calmly receiving fire while he aims, ranged attacks miss more.

[ham2anv]

Originally Posted by Icelander

What if he's a PC?

And is hoping to Dodge at the last time?

Then it matters a great deal what the to-hit roll is and whether or not it is Telegraphic.

I wouldn't be running a game where a hero surviving an execution relied on a single Dodge roll. It would require something more than that: for instance a distraction mounted by his comrades or a Fast-Talk or Intimidation roll to make the gunman hesitate followed by a preemptive move to disarm him--probably at hefty penalties and all supported by healthy amounts of Luck, Daredevil, Higher Purpose or more explicit supernatural abilities (Altered Time Rate and/or Enhanced Time Sense, Mind Control, etc.).

If the PC has none of those things, the only way he would have gotten to that point was by doing something very stupid in opposition to a ruthless and powerful enemy. In my game, simply failing at an otherwise sound plan would not lead to execution. Capture, certainly, stripped of gear and thrown in a cell. Possibly torture or experimentation. But not execution.

If execution is a possible outcome, I would make this perfectly clear to my players (maybe have them witness the enemy executing nameless NPCs), and I would hope they would take that into account when making plans. If they ignore it or fail to rescue any captured teammates, they should know that will happen to them.