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Old 10-01-2020, 11:41 AM   #11
Polkageist
 
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Default Re: Trolls and Unarmed Attacks/Strategies

Trolls are crazy and like getting hurt when parrying
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Old 10-02-2020, 12:16 PM   #12
InexplicableVic
 
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Default Re: Trolls and Unarmed Attacks/Strategies

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Originally Posted by zuljita View Post
Another idea: if you are hunting the trolls in their lair, make sure to use darkness penalties, foul stench (go with Nausea from Exploits p.65) and maybe a slick floor covered in something truly foul (go with something like -1 to all DX rolls/DX based skills). The trolls are right at home in such conditions and suffer no penalties.
There will definitely be a bridge...
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Old 10-02-2020, 03:38 PM   #13
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Default Re: Trolls and Unarmed Attacks/Strategies

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Originally Posted by Spartan506 View Post
There will definitely be a bridge...
Putting in a bridge is just stereotyping.
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Old 10-02-2020, 03:57 PM   #14
Dalin
 
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Default Re: Trolls and Unarmed Attacks/Strategies

This troll conversation has gotten me thinking about an encounter setup where trolls take advantage of their regeneration ability to buy time to regrow. I was originally thinking about a dungeon with some sort of chutes or slides to a lower level (like the remorhaz tunnels in one of the dungeons in the new Icewind Dale adventure). Trolls could jump into the chutes if they get severely injured (or if the party brings out the acid and fire), regenerate below, and either climb up or regroup in a different location.

The bridge idea, though, could also be interesting. An encounter might begin with trolls on the bridge or on the far side or whatever. Battle ensues. Before any given troll falls unconscious, they leap from the bridge. It could be very deep, in which case they get knocked into deep negatives and then recover. (Even from -10xHP, they will be back to full in less than two minutes.) Or it could be rocky rapids in an underground stream: rough on a body, but who cares if you can regenerate? Water has the added advantage of being effective against fire (and can potentially dilute acid). The PCs could attempt to follow them, but finishing the job would be difficult and dangerous. This could be especially fun if there is some sort of situation on the far side of the bridge that might take a few minutes to overcome (e.g., locks to pick, traps to get around, mooks to defeat, etc.). The clock will be ticking for the trolls to reemerge from the chasm and attack the party from behind.
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Old 10-02-2020, 04:14 PM   #15
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Default Re: Trolls and Unarmed Attacks/Strategies

Water would definitely dilute away any realistic acid.
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Old 10-03-2020, 06:54 AM   #16
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Default Re: Trolls and Unarmed Attacks/Strategies

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Originally Posted by Anders View Post
Putting in a bridge is just stereotyping.
Haha, it’s from The Forbidden Caverns of Archaia, which I’m converting to use with DFRPG. But yes...it definitely is. Perhaps the players will suspect it and act accordingly!
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Old 10-03-2020, 07:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: Trolls and Unarmed Attacks/Strategies

Just playing with ideas about trolls, I got to thinking about how they 1) don't really die, and 2) don't also take over the entire world.

First off, the not dying. The only thing that causes real damage to a troll is fire and acid. So, does the troll ever heal from that?
I think the answer is no! A troll regenerates nearly any harm to its body *except* that which is caused by fire and acid, which never really heals. So a troll's senesence is not so much that it gets old and dies (they don't), but that over the years they slowly accumulate enough damage from fire or acidic sources in the environment that they stop working and "die". At that point they may take further damage and regenerate, but only to a point because they won't regenerate past the point of the accumulated fire/acid harm that they've taken.

Second point, where are these trolls taking acid and fire damage? Interestingly enough, there are enough sources of that in nature. Fire is easy, forest fires probably kill a good number of trolls and in any forested area are probably the number one factor in keeping their scaly hides under control. Adventurers and savvy townsfolk are a decent second, and likely the only 'natural predator' of a troll.
Acid is interesting, because there's a lot of it in the environment but not in a great concentration. So how does this affect our troll? Kind of like plaque from fatty foods builds up in humans and causes heart attacks, acidic elements in the environment slowly build up harm in a troll until it keels over. Now don't get me wrong, this takes a LONG time, but not impossibly so. Things like stomach acids from kills or scavenge, acid rain, acidic waters in swamps (spruce bogs for example), heck even citrus fruits that a troll unknowingly eats slowly builds up that plaque.

I guess a third point as to why trolls don't take over everything is that they're probably not all that aggressive at reproducing. Not that it's really known how they do so, probably in a 'lop off an arm and grow a buddy' sort of way that's probably not all that popular.

Nothing canon or concrete, just some musings about the how and why of the beasties.
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Old 09-24-2022, 02:03 PM   #18
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Default Re: Trolls and Unarmed Attacks/Strategies

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Originally Posted by InexplicableVic View Post
What's the best way to combat this? Deceptive attacks by the Troll, to reduce skill to 11 (Deceptive -2) to make it more likely to hit or miss, less likely that there will be a parry? Start off with a Slam as part of the first attack, which is not likely to be parried (but blocked by a shield user), and then try to grapple with Extra Attack 2 afterwards (given those will be at 9s)?

With 325+ point guys that are optimized well for combat, I'm looking for some ideas.
I'm going to start off by assuming there are about as many trolls as delvers.

Since trolls already have Extra Attack 2 and a built-in grappling bite, plus Size +1 and Unfazeable, the obvious go-to strategy is very aggressive: overrun, close combat, Deceptive All Out Attack (Determined) with multiple slams until the enemy falls down, followed by biting.

Let's say Bjork the Half-Ogre Knight has entered a room and found a troll 5 yards away from him. The troll is marginally faster than Bjork (6.25 vs 6.00). It immediately charges toward him, spending 5 movement points on movement and overrunning him as a free action for an attempted 2d-3 (thr-2 for ST 20) +2 (Brawling at DX +2) +4 (for moving 5 yards). If Bjork's weapon weighs less than 7 lb. he can't parry without risking breakage, and he can't parry at all with most weapons in close combat unless he retreats, but let's say Bjork has a greatsword and retreats and parries successfully, inflicting 3d+3 (sw+3) +6 (Weapon Master) cut damage to the troll's torso. Call it 30 points of injury.

It has High Pain Threshold and Regeneration and Unkillable and Overconfidence. It doesn't care about the injury. Assuming it passes its HT-15 check to avoid knockdown (HT 12, +3 for High Pain Tolerance) and its HT-12 check to remain conscious, the next thing it does is finish its move to follow Bjork back into close combat again and slam him again, Deceptively (using Determined to cancel out the -4 to hit for -2 to defense), for 2d+5 slam damage (extra +2 for now having moved 6 yards instead of 5) vs. Bjork's 1d+3 (thr-2 for ST 18 is 1d, plus +3 for the troll's movement). There's a decent chance Bjork falls right over, and if he doesn't, the troll can slam him twice more, and use any leftover attacks for a bite that will grapple Bjork too, giving him a total penalty of -8 on any close combat attacks he manages to pull off (knife or kick most likely).

The troll takes some major damage from the initial parry but after that it's all downhill for Bjork. And of course if Bjork has already used up his Retreat on another monster, he doesn't even get that initial hit.

And that is why trolls[1] should terrify even delvers who can do 3d+9 cutting damage multiple times per round.

P.S. But don't kill the troll either! Beat it unconscious and then stash it in Suspended Animation for the Bard to Mind Control as needed, later on.

[1] And puddings. There's very little reason for a pudding ever to NOT do an All Out Attack (Double) slam for 4d+3 to 4d+15 depending on speed, per slam. Its Bash attack is essentially redundant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polkageist View Post
First off, the not dying. The only thing that causes real damage to a troll is fire and acid. So, does the troll ever heal from that?
I think the answer is no! A troll regenerates nearly any harm to its body *except* that which is caused by fire and acid, which never really heals.
They don't have Unhealing and the troll description mentions "scars" from old acid or fire wounds. I think those wounds heal at the normal, nonsupernatural rate of 2 HP per day.

Last edited by sjmdw45; 09-24-2022 at 02:16 PM.
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