Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip > The Fantasy Trip: House Rules

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-06-2021, 08:23 PM   #1
timm meyers
 
Join Date: May 2020
Default Priests, clerics and Deity

Love to hear some feed back on this my 3rd form of rules attempting to bring more "spirit" to Cidri.

Cleric system MK III
The talent Priest or Theologian has the following rules.

Once learned these talents mean the character have devoted themselves enough to request assistance from their deity to perform spiritual feats. This is represented as being able to “earn” (not learn) assistance in the form of spells. (or make up some cleric spells but honestly its all magic)

Priests- Having this talent a character may choose to earn a spell the same way as a 2 cost talent (1k exp if fighter class, 2k exp if wizard class). The available spells are from their IQ +1
Theologians- May “earn” spells as a 1 point talent. Available spells are from their IQ +3

To use an “earned” spell the player follows all requirements as a wizard from gestures, voice, DX roll etc.

“Earned” spells are not inhibited by metals and do not suffer the -4 DX penalty (ITL p. 140).

Powering earned spells do not cost fatigue nor can they use storage devices.

A successfully cast “earned” spell expends “Favor”. This represents the spiritual will of the deity to assist their follower. Favor is equal to the characters ST. Players must track the use of “Favor” the same as they would fatigue except “Favor” has no effect on the characters ST. Once all “Favor” is expended they no longer can cast/request any of their Earned spells.
Failing the roll of an earned spell does not expend favor as the deity has simply ignored you.

Critical failure roll of an earned spell still fails but expends Favor as if the spell were successfully cast. (option of a critical 18 roll = you have really angered the deity and lose all your remaining Favor pts)

Favor points only replenish once a week at which time the character regains their full ST level in Favor points. Current status of wounds or fatigue have no effect on this, and Favor is always restored to a characters starting level in ST. The 7-day time period starts once a character has expended their last favor point and are at zero. Think of this as the deity will answer a clerics call requesting help but has a limit to the number of pestering requests they will receive.

Desperation- A cleric with 0 or negative Favor may still attempt to use an Earned spell. Perform the spell casting as normal, marking all favor used as Negative, then make a saving roll VS IQ. The number of dice to be rolled is equal to the current level of Negative Favor they have. If successful nothing bad happens and their deity has chosen to grant their desperate request. If failed the character immediately loses all earned spells and are stripped of their Priest/Theologian talent(s).
The forlorn character may earn back their status after this horrible mistake but will probably be spending years of experience to relearn talents and spells.
timm meyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2021, 10:25 PM   #2
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Default Re: Priests, clerics and Deity

Hi Timm,
I think this sounds good for house rules. I do see one area you will want to address: maintenance ST cost.

You said the spells would have no ST cost. So, when does one with a maintenance cost end? You would not want it to run forever without a cost. Flight, Invisibility, Summoning spells all become too powerful. Maybe put a 3 turn limit on them, or something else.

Good luck.
Axly Suregrip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2021, 06:06 AM   #3
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Priests, clerics and Deity

Priests are more powerful when there are no gods to contradict their whims.

Elma Goodvoice, Halfling wizard, age 50
ST 6, DX 14 (13), IQ 20, MA 10
Talents: Alertness, Charisma, Theologian, Thrown Weapons
Spells include: Geas, Great Voice, Light, Look Your Best, Staff V, Word of Command - Believe
Languages: Common, Goblin, Orcish, Sorcerers’ Tongue
Weapon: Staff V laurel club (1d-1)
Attacks and Damage: Punch (1d-4)
Armor: Enchanted water armor and Iron Flesh ring stop 14 hits
Magic Items:
• water armor, enchanted +5 hits
• Staff V (Mana: 40): laurel club with reverse missiles enchantment
• silver ring, Iron Flesh
• silver ring, Spell Shield
• silver ring, Persuasiveness
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2021, 09:24 AM   #4
timm meyers
 
Join Date: May 2020
Default Re: Priests, clerics and Deity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
Hi Timm,
I think this sounds good for house rules. I do see one area you will want to address: maintenance ST cost.

You said the spells would have no ST cost. So, when does one with a maintenance cost end? You would not want it to run forever without a cost. Flight, Invisibility, Summoning spells all become too powerful. Maybe put a 3 turn limit on them, or something else.

Good luck.
It is all used "Favor". Example- A summoned wolf as an "Earned" spell takes 2 favor to cast then 1 favor per turn until you dismiss it. Basicly the cleric type is best as a fighter class who can learn spells and cast as a non-fatigue wizard but with a finite pool of strength that replenishes on a 7 day cycle.
timm meyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2021, 09:36 AM   #5
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Priests, clerics and Deity

I have a simpler but otherwise similar house rule for religious characters:

1) Priest is on an expanded list of talents that cost the same for Heroes and Wizards

2) Religions have a limited list of spells that can be obtained at the lower Wizard cost rate if you are a hero, know the Priest talent and are a member in good standing of that religion.

In the end this amounts to a bit of grade inflation (making PC's more powerful or removing XP barriers to certain kinds of advancement). I generally dislike all 'grade inflation' house rules because they tend to move the goal posts without improving the game; i.e., they just accelerate your progress toward some treat you covet. If that is all you want, then I think it is simpler and more honest to just declare you want your PC's to be more powerful than the ones the game is designed to create, so you are granting yourself 5k XP or whatever. But in this case I feel like the grade inflation is subtle and controlled, and serves only to encourage groups to integrate religion more fully into their games.
larsdangly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2021, 08:33 AM   #6
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Re: Priests, clerics and Deity

Quote:
Originally Posted by timm meyers View Post
Love to hear some feed back on this my 3rd form of rules attempting to bring more "spirit" to Cidri.
My impression is that it's another way to be a wizard. It doesn't seem to be much about being a priest of a particular god, in fact the nature of your deity (are they a sun and fertility god? A necromancy and peace goddess?) seems to have no effect on how the system works. I suppose it could affect your choice of spells.

A wizard can cast all spells and be ready to do it again a few hours later. A priest can do this once a week. The difference could be significant or absolutely huge depending on the nature of the campaign and it's very hard to predict which. The advantage of keeping your hit points doesn't seem a big deal. Getting access to higher IQ spells could be awesome, but you won't get to cast them often. The strong campaign-dependence makes it hard to know if this is balanced, but for most games I think the priests would be pretty weak.

Favour doesn't seem to have much to do with a god's favour. It just regenerates. It doesn't care if you serve the god well, or are pious.

My general feeling is that this isn't about being a priest. You could scrub the words "deity" and "priest" and say it was all based on using chi power or whatever and the system would make just as much sense. In fact the one-week recovery rule might make *more* sense.
David Bofinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2021, 10:32 AM   #7
timm meyers
 
Join Date: May 2020
Default Re: Priests, clerics and Deity

My impression is that it's another way to be a wizard. It doesn't seem to be much about being a priest of a particular god, in fact the nature of your deity (are they a sun and fertility god? A necromancy and peace goddess?) seems to have no effect on how the system works. I suppose it could affect your choice of spells.

I agree. My other systems do deal in depth with all the possible God types, worship aspects, holy fuel etc My conclusion was that trying to encapsulate the myriad possible functions of fantasy deities was not efficient as "rules".
These subjects are better addressed in "world building" and will not be the same in any two settings. ITL is best clean- meaning I can design a "Kings' Champion" as a master fencer or a weapon mastery or a max DX attribute, this aloes my interpretation to rule not the system dictate to me.


A wizard can cast all spells and be ready to do it again a few hours later. A priest can do this once a week. The difference could be significant or absolutely huge depending on the nature of the campaign and it's very hard to predict which. The advantage of keeping your hit points doesn't seem a big deal. Getting access to higher IQ spells could be awesome, but you won't get to cast them often. The strong campaign-dependence makes it hard to know if this is balanced, but for most games I think the priests would be pretty weak.

Balance can be subjective but my thoughts are "How do you supply players with an option of spirituality?" Can you have a wizard priest? Can you have a warrior priest? Can you have a priest priest? With that in mind my preference is always better underpowered than abusive. These rules give a a character the option at 1 or 3 IQ pts to “substitute” other talents for “spells” they view as holy occurrence, that they “cast” for free on a limited bases. Almost too much of a trope?

Favour doesn't seem to have much to do with a god's favour. It just regenerates. It doesn't care if you serve the god well, or are pious.

Very true. My other systems include deity creations, aspects of powers, tenants of faith, laws and taboos, and all sorts of similar flavor. I like this but it becomes very cumbersome in order to address nuance or flavor that I now think is better left to the GM / Players. Not sure if another whole book of rules to encourage/force players to be pious is needed? or GM and players choosing to roleplay a holy character is better implied?

My general feeling is that this isn't about being a priest. You could scrub the words "deity" and "priest" and say it was all based on using chi power or whatever and the system would make just as much sense. In fact the one-week recovery rule might make *more* sense

Again I agree. That's the fundamental problem with the iconic clerical caste. No matter how you look at it we are in essence adding another "Magic" system. I do however think that having a system that is not so overly defined it allows players to view the results as they wish as in your chi power example.

Thanks for the great feedback David!
timm meyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2021, 02:00 AM   #8
JohnPaulB
 
JohnPaulB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Portland, Maine
Default Re: Priests, clerics and Deity

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bofinger View Post
My impression is that it's another way to be a wizard. It doesn't seem to be much about being a priest of a particular god, in fact the nature of your deity (are they a sun and fertility god? A necromancy and peace goddess?) seems to have no effect on how the system works. I suppose it could affect your choice of spells.

A wizard can cast all spells and be ready to do it again a few hours later. A priest can do this once a week. The difference could be significant or absolutely huge depending on the nature of the campaign and it's very hard to predict which. The advantage of keeping your hit points doesn't seem a big deal. Getting access to higher IQ spells could be awesome, but you won't get to cast them often. The strong campaign-dependence makes it hard to know if this is balanced, but for most games I think the priests would be pretty weak.

Favour doesn't seem to have much to do with a god's favour. It just regenerates. It doesn't care if you serve the god well, or are pious.

My general feeling is that this isn't about being a priest. You could scrub the words "deity" and "priest" and say it was all based on using chi power or whatever and the system would make just as much sense. In fact the one-week recovery rule might make *more* sense.
Oooohhhh How about those special Priests using PSIONICs (TFT Companion p 31) instead of doing magic. That would really separate the two styles and it would really seem to other players like Miracles have been done.

You would really have to boost/alter/expand the types of PSI talents and make sure that game balance is still in effect. But this allows for rules that are Rules as Written (roughly speaking) but also a departure too.

In the PSIONICs rules (which were written back in the 80s), when it says a Psi talent costs 6 Creation Points to buy, it currently means 30000 XP. Could be steep.
__________________
- Hail Melee

Fantasy Chess: A chess game with combat.
Don't just take the square, Fight for it!
https://www.shadowhex.com
JohnPaulB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2021, 04:08 AM   #9
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Re: Priests, clerics and Deity

You might try some simple abilities for clerics, such as:
  • Blessings: roll n/IQ to give +1 for all rolls to a group of n characters.
  • Curses: roll n/IQ to give -1 for all rolls to a group of n figures.
  • Divine intervention: get a reroll.
  • Abilities equivalent to any spell that seems particularly clerical, e.g. Trance.
A priest get favour by doing things their god thinks good, and loses it by demanding things of their god? And when you run out you have to go on a quest for something the god wants.

Something like that.
David Bofinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2021, 08:50 PM   #10
timm meyers
 
Join Date: May 2020
Default Re: Priests, clerics and Deity

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bofinger View Post
You might try some simple abilities for clerics, such as:
  • Blessings: roll n/IQ to give +1 for all rolls to a group of n characters.
  • Curses: roll n/IQ to give -1 for all rolls to a group of n figures.
  • Divine intervention: get a reroll.
  • Abilities equivalent to any spell that seems particularly clerical, e.g. Trance.
A priest get favour by doing things their god thinks good, and loses it by demanding things of their god? And when you run out you have to go on a quest for something the god wants.

Something like that.
I definitely think there is room for all sorts of added flavor to priestly types. This is my 3rd version and by far the simplest as the others contain similar mechanic as you stated.

I do think that in keeping with the simple idea you could modify spells to be more holy. Aid is a no brainer that if a cleric earned that spell it actually restores ST like a healing spell if desired. Trance like you said is actually a spiritual spell no matter how you look at it. Summon spells could bring a different or better skin such as angels or pantheon creatures.

I really like the group effects like you mentioned too as these are pretty iconic of the trope.
Here is a sample of some of the other older systems "spells". This approach warrants a separate set of rules for devotion and actions to gain and receive favor etc. Which would be comprehensive like Melee/Wizard but now I am just looking for something simpler that can be a skeleton for others to hang their ideas of deity on.

Benevolence
Devotion Points Effect(s)
1 Grace: Reroll any 1 die just rolled for any reason “against” the player or party. This will reroll a single die from a group of more than 1 and the player chooses which die to be rerolled.
1 Aid: Add a D6 to any attribute of the follower. Aid may be used for twice the cost (2DP) on other targets in site. The bonus lasts 2D6 turns rolled by the GM
2 Heal: Cannot be performed on the run or in combat etc. must be stationary and together. May heal 2D6 of wounds/fatigue/poison etc. damage from self and others. The total hits healed rolled may be divided as desired between multiple people/wounds (each separate person healed this way should add a turn of time etc.
2 Defense: Player gains immunity from any type of attack performed by one class/type of creature for 2D6 turns (GM roll). Player must declare a specific type and cannot say “mammals” but could choose “wolves”. They may alternatively choose 1 single target in site such as “the vampire sitting on the throne of dead bodies”. Note this only grants the follower immunity not their companions and only lasts a random number of turns.
4 Protection: Creates a barrier (invisible or visible) akin to a force field/ aversion up to a MMH from the follower that will protect all within from any 1 thing/creature/effect chosen when invoked. Must be specific as “defense” above but may include things such as “fire”, “gas” etc. This circle/dome of protection centers on the follower and moves with them. Effect lasts for 2D6 turns rolled by GM.
6 Exorcism: Remove the effects of a possession or control spell.
8 Resurrection: Revive any dead thing. The subject must be relatively fresh and not in a state of decomposition. If granted roll a D6 for effect. The result of the resurrection die is -1 for each 24 hours of death and any 0 or negative result = failure (or undead?!)
1=Stable and barely alive. St. is 1 and must heal as normal the rest of their st.
2= Weak and have 25% of their original strength and must heal the rest as above.
3= Fair and have 50% of original strength must heal the rest.
4= Winded and have 50% of original strength and the other 50% as fatigue
5= Fine and at full strength
6= Miraculous- at full strength all items and clothes fully restored and clean and gain a +1 to any attribute. The resurrected must now follow the God and is automatically a follower with a +1 piety level
16 Deliverance: The follower will be miraculously saved from some form of imprisonment, trap or deadly hardship. Anything from opening a magic portal that allows the follower to “walk” from prison to safety or a landside granting escape from the pit of death etc.
timm meyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.