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Old 01-29-2021, 03:05 PM   #1
Engurrand
 
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Default Ghostly Movement Takes Penalties?

The Ghostly Movement advantage in Horror states:
Quote:
As a special effect, any mundane requirements for getting from A to B replace warp’s usual success roll, and Warp fails if you can’t meet them; e.g., if you would need a Lockpicking roll, you must know Lockpicking, while if you would have to unscrew a bolt, you require a wrench.
Do the skill rolls require either:
  • Taking Less Time (presumably the -10 for instant)
  • Warp penalties/bonuses for Preparation Time (also -10 for no preparation)
Or is it an unmodified skill roll to lockpick that door?
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Last edited by Engurrand; 01-29-2021 at 03:07 PM. Reason: fixing a typo
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Old 01-29-2021, 03:12 PM   #2
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Ghostly Movement Takes Penalties?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engurrand View Post
The Ghostly Movement advantage in Horror states:


Do the skill rolls require either:
  • Taking Less Time (presumably the -10 for instant)
  • Warp penalties/bonuses for Preparation Time (also -10 for no preparation)
Or is it an unmodified skill roll to lockpick that door?
It's just a special effect so the modifiers would be those for Warp.
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Old 01-29-2021, 06:39 PM   #3
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: Ghostly Movement Takes Penalties?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engurrand View Post
The Ghostly Movement advantage in Horror states:


Do the skill rolls require either:
  • Taking Less Time (presumably the -10 for instant)
  • Warp penalties/bonuses for Preparation Time (also -10 for no preparation)
Or is it an unmodified skill roll to lockpick that door?
It's still Warp so you ignore barriers and any rolls required, though you still take the penalties for Warp to do quick and such.
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Old 01-30-2021, 09:18 AM   #4
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Default Re: Ghostly Movement Takes Penalties?

Excellent. Thank you both. That clarifies how it would interact with existing power stunts and techniques for warp as well.

Cheers!
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Old 01-31-2021, 11:50 AM   #5
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Default Re: Ghostly Movement Takes Penalties?

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Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
you still take the penalties for Warp to do quick and such.
"replace warp’s usual success roll" sounds like penalties for fast-warping wouldn't matter much

Unless it's something like "Cosmic: No Roll Required" where you don't need to roll for warp, but penalties for fast-warping determine if you can ATTEMPT to warp, ie requiring a minimum skill of 3.

"if you would need a Lockpicking roll, you must know Lockpicking" is a strange one because per B206 most people can attempt a lockpicking roll at IQ-5...

So when would a condition like "does not know lockpicking" exist? It's a TL skill so I guess B22's "Low TL" disadvantage?
You start with no knowledge (or default skill) relating to equipment above your personal TL
I guess this means if you're a Psycho Killer from TL 7 you can use Ghostly Movement to get into a TL 7 locked room but not a TL 8 locked room?

I'm guessing the IQ roll for lockpicking might work in a similar way to the IQ roll for Warp: they don't need to make it, but perhaps need an effective skill of at least 3 (they could attempt it) for the Warp to work?

The "minimum 3 for both rolls" seems like a good balancing mechanism, and would explain why a Ghostly Movement foe like Psycho Killer might spend extra time getting to a certain place...

For these purposes I'm wondering if time spent prepping the warp (to get an IQ bonus to reach the minimum effective skill required) should also count as time spent prepping any required skills (ie lockpicking) for the purposes of also getting them up to a minimum of 3, or if you would add together prep times.
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Old 02-01-2021, 11:52 AM   #6
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Default Re: Ghostly Movement Takes Penalties?

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Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
It's still Warp so you ignore barriers and any rolls required, though you still take the penalties for Warp to do quick and such.
So Essentially this is a special version of Requires Skill Use at the -0% level?
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Old 02-01-2021, 11:57 AM   #7
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Ghostly Movement Takes Penalties?

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
"replace warp’s usual success roll" sounds like penalties for fast-warping wouldn't matter much

Unless it's something like "Cosmic: No Roll Required" where you don't need to roll for warp, but penalties for fast-warping determine if you can ATTEMPT to warp, ie requiring a minimum skill of 3.

"if you would need a Lockpicking roll, you must know Lockpicking" is a strange one because per B206 most people can attempt a lockpicking roll at IQ-5...
That's faking it not knowing it. You would have had to invest a point in it to "know" it.
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Old 02-01-2021, 02:59 PM   #8
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Default Re: Ghostly Movement Takes Penalties?

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
That's faking it not knowing it. You would have had to invest a point in it to "know" it.
A point in an average IQ skill brings it up to IQ-1, so an IQ 6 guy would have an effective base skill of merely 5...

Whereas even somebody Incompetent in Lockpicking (extra -4 on default : IQ-9) with an IQ of 14 would have the same effective skill... and IQ 15/16 would be better.

It would seem strange that the "incompetent genius" lockpicker would be better in every scenario EXCEPT for when using it in combination with Warp...

Which is why it seems better to treat "doesn't know" as "no default whatsoever" situations, like being Low TL relative to the lock.
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Old 02-01-2021, 05:23 PM   #9
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: Ghostly Movement Takes Penalties?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless View Post
So Essentially this is a special version of Requires Skill Use at the -0% level?
Sort of. You still need to see the other side unless you have Blind so it's not a perfect barrier remover. For that get something like Permeation or add Blind.
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Old 02-01-2021, 09:54 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ghostly Movement Takes Penalties?

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Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
Sort of. You still need to see the other side unless you have Blind so it's not a perfect barrier remover. For that get something like Permeation or add Blind.
Now you have me wondering how Blind or Blind Only works with Ghostly Movement...

Always being at -5 doesn't seem to matter if you don't make the IQ roll at all (unless this affects requiring a minimal effective skill of 3 like with No Roll Required)

Costing 2 FP per +1 instead of 1 FP per +1 similarly ... you're generally not going to need to spend FP to increase your effective IQ-based Warp skill when using Ghostly Movement since you don't make the roll...

EXCEPT as previously, if we're requiring a minimum effective skill of 3, which does seem reasonable.

Like basically if we view Ghostly Movement as Cosmic: Cheating: No Roll Required +100% baseline. It's the only way that "don't bother rolling" seems balanced, but then how d owe offset it since it's not priced out?

H20's writeup could definitely use more "under the hood". Range Limit -50% normally limits you to 10 yards for example, but this allows "Move Yards" which is better for Move under 10 and worse for Move over 10.

Changing the Range of Warp from a fixed amount to an amount dependent on a Secondary Characteristic is kind of like the reverse of what Psionic Powers 18's "modified cacity" does, by shifting it away from Lift (BL) to Lift (Static).

If that's a precedent, it's a 0% feature to shift between "BL my Lifting ST gives me" and "what the BL that the human average Lifting ST of 10 is capable of lifting".

If that's the case, then maybe it should be a 0% feature to shift between "the 5 yards that human average Basic Move 5 is capable of moving" and "the yards that my personal Basic Move can travel" ? This would benefit you when you're fast but you can't warp as far when slowed from fatigue/injury

In that case though, it seems to go a step further, since the average movement of 5 yards is only half the 10 yards from maximum range. Reduced Range 1/2 would be another -10% and I think I've seen that used in Psionic Powers to bring Warp below 10 yards already.

Instead of Cosmic +100% I'm thinking this might just be something like "Skill Adaptation" where instead of substituting a fixed skill that you can specialize in for Warp, you must substitute whatever skill is appropriate for warp, which might be a large variety of skills to learn for many different situations.

On one hand that's a versatile perk set (sub a variety of skills) but OTOH it's a limited one (sub only what's appropriate). It's kine of like if you have something like "I need to roll IQ or DX to use my ability, but instead of using whichever is better I must use whichever is WORSE".
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